Posts by OneEyedJoe

13

Just realized this recently - as a JW, I never "owned" any of my accomplishments or talents & abilities....

by Muddy Waters in

just realized this recently - as a jw, i never "owned" any of my accomplishments or talents & abilities....we were always told how we are nothing, just specks of dust, grasshoppers, worms.... lowly, despicable sinners in need of redemption, born into sin & misery, constantly facing temptations that we could never handle on our own but only with "jehovah's help"... so we were continually marginalized, all our abilities and talents... they would even quote scriptures that said things like "why should we boast as if we didn't receive these abilities..?

"it was a weird mentally psychotic dichotomy -- being told we were worthless sinners, undeserving of god's kindness -- and on the other hand being the only ones who would survive the great day of jehovah the almighty god at armageddon.

(well, probably, maybe, if we did enough and *kept* doing enough...)so we didn't "own" any of our abilities and accomplishments.

OneEyedJoe

Yeah, this is a key point that I don't think gets as much attention as it deserves in places like this. It's a little more abstract than debating points of doctrine, failed date prophecies, etc so I think the tendency may be not to give it much attention. The fact is, though, that this is one of the key ways that the cult enslaves people. By stripping everyone in the cult of any personal value or self-worth, they keep them as drones without the self confidence to believe they can make it on their own. This contributes in a large way to the "where else will I go" thought stopper that is so prevalent with those that see the problems but remain trapped in nonetheless.

I started to see issues with this philosophy probably in my late teens and it only got worse as I entered college and the work force. Especially when drawing a contrast to the average JW I was intelligent and knew that I wanted to work in a field where I could use my mind. For a long time I was made to feel guilty due to this desire. It wasn't humble. It didn't give attention to god. I shouldn't think so much of myself. I'm glad I didn't listen. This sort of indoctrination is just another component of what keeps people from trusting that they know better when they see things like the overlapping generation nonsense or the abuse issues or whatever. They beat you down to think that you're so completely worthless, they strip away anything that makes you unique or especially talented so that when a doubt arises you think so little of yourself that you cannot fathom to go against the cult and trust yourself.

33

Congrats to Kim Mikey!

by awake!watcher in

jw
friends

congrats to kim mikey, mike and kim reached 3000 subscribers on their youtube channel!

go check em out!

OneEyedJoe

Kim & Mikey are "nuts" and "give apostates a bad name"?
WTF? Those two seem like some of the most genuine people I've ever heard talk about the WatchTower cult.
They are a bit more "country" living in the southwest USA. But oh hey! Let's praise John Cedars, who shamelessly struts around looking like a disgruntled, out-of-work postal employee with a bad attitude. Yeah, he's a real winner. *GAG*

If Mike and Kim had been the first apostates that I encountered when I started looking online, it definitely would've delayed my waking up. From what I've seen, Mike and Kim just seem to be making videos to taunt, belittle, and laugh at JWs. There doesn't seem to be an ounce of concern for active JWs, they start their videos with taunts like "active JWs might as well just turn this off right now because we're going to look at old light from old literature!" And often laugh heartily at absurd doctrine that, I will admit, would be funny if not for the millions that it has enslaved. I've not seen one video that would make a believing JW think they're anything but bitter angry apostates trying to justify their wrong lifestyle. I'm incredibly thankful that I found Paul Grundy's work well before I found theirs.

I will say that Cedars is probably not helping things with his personal grooming...and some of his videos (like the prank call to AMIII) would likely do more harm than good for a believing JW that happens upon them, but at least he usually seems to express genuine disappointment and concern for the way JWs are enslaved and for the clear flaws in doctrine and policy. Maybe his appearance is a turn off but I think for most JW men it doesn't take long to realize that if he's right about what he's saying, it makes sense that he might enjoy the freedom to have a beard upon leaving. Again, I'm glad I found jwfacts first, but I don't think Cedars would've sent me running back to the cult like Mike and Kim would've.

As cathartic and humorous as it can be to poke fun at our former beliefs with those that can relate, it's certainly not helpful for still-in JWs to be broadcasting it all over the internet without at least mitigating it a little to show concern and empathy for those who are still enslaved by these beliefs. To me Mike and Kim are only one step better than those that picket conventions - they simply give weight to the watchtower's assertion that apostates are angry, bitter, mentally diseased ones looking to gather followers. I see that this criticism can apply to Cedars too, but it's certainly to a lesser extent.

That's just my opinion, though. Who knows...maybe there's someone out there to whom their apparently inebriated manner appeals and maybe they'll free a few. I certainly hope they help more than they hurt, I just see that they're taking a great deal of unnecessary risk if it is truly their goal to help JWs that might be having doubts.

33

Congrats to Kim Mikey!

by awake!watcher in

jw
friends

congrats to kim mikey, mike and kim reached 3000 subscribers on their youtube channel!

go check em out!

OneEyedJoe

Not much a fan of those nut jobs. I think they may do more harm than good.

22

Swearing on the bible

by Lost and adrift in

on the subject of truth.

..... i was always under the impression that one of the reasons jws couldn't do jury duty or go to court etc was that we were not allowed to swear on the bible.

..as in i swear to tell the truth the whole truth etc etc .

OneEyedJoe

I don't think I ever heard of a problem with swearing on the bible. If there isn't anything in JWdom advising against it, it would still be one of those things that I can see JWs getting worried about, thinking they might've missed that rule of whatever.

39

How do you feel about the expression "The Truth"?

by stuckinarut2 in

jw
friends

it's amazing how the expression "the truth" has become such an ingrained term used by witnesses.. "we have 'the truth'".

"is he 'in the truth'?".

most here have found out so many facts about the organisation, and felt the effects of being "gut-punched" as we realised these facts.. so how do you feel about the expression "the truth" now?.

OneEyedJoe

The term "the truth" in JWism may be a carryover from Freemasonary. Though with the Masons it is the pursuit of truth, not that they are in "the truth" as the JWs define their religion.

From what I've read on this forum, the use of "the truth" or "in the truth" started in the 40s or 50s. By that point the JWs were pretty distinct from any potential freemason influences. My theory is that this is just a meme - an idea that someone had up top because it worked for Jesus ("I am the way, the truth and the life") and it stuck because it was helpful at keeping people indoctrinated and separate from other people. Probably a pretty similar process to what develops most of the loaded language in JWism (and other cults).

Personally, the term makes me sick to hear it used in reference to the cult. I haven't used it since I woke up, and I think going back to exclusively using the JW loaded language words as they're used by the normal populous is a very useful part of cleaning out lingering indoctrination and any reservations/doubts one might have about leaving. It's a very unconscious part of their control, and it's difficult not to be influenced by it. As Steve Hassan said, words are the tools we use to think. If, upon leaving the cult, you continue to use the loaded language of the cult, your thinking will still be influenced by your past indoctrination.

14

Whatever happened to the Lopez case?

by StarTrekAngel in

was it settled?

is it still pending further appeal?

OneEyedJoe

Was Lopez molested while in field service, or a similar activity? If so, was the congregation negligent in letting him be alone with a known pedophile? If so, then he wins the case hands down I'd think, based upon the precedent set by Conti.

As I recall only his mother was a JW and as such was considered a "fatherless boy" and his molester was assigned to study with him and generally look out for his "spiritual well-being." They put his abuser in a position of trust, so it really doesn't matter where specifically the abuse occurred.

38

Most Poorly Written JW Book

by JW_Rogue in

so i was thinking the other day that the wt corp has produced thousands of books over the years.

although the writers have changed the style is almost always the same.

however, some books are just worse than others.

OneEyedJoe

My picks, just based on the ones that I remember, not including things from before my time:

Award for most ridiculous doctrine and prophecy interpretation: Revalation book

Award for most poorly researched/intentionally misleading: Creation book (I now call it the evolution book because I firmly believe that anyone who reads it and the sources they use and thinks critically on the information will have no choice but to accept evolution)

Award for most likely to have been written by an illiterate teenager: Whatever the latest release is. Their quality of writing has been declining steadily over the years, so I have no doubt that they have and will continue to top themselves each year.

10

JW.org inaccessible

by Watchtower-Free in

.

OneEyedJoe

Why?

Last year it was even worse - it wasn't accessible on the 29th either. They're doing better this year but something tells me that next year it'll be the same as the last 3 years.

11

Are you related to me?

by Coded Logic in

the chances that anyone on this forum is my biological brother or sister, purely from a statistical point of view, is rather low.

but how many generations back would we have to go to have a fair chance that one of my ancestors married one of your ancestors (or procreated anyway)?.

i was born in 1985. less than 20 years before my birth my two parents were being conceived by a combined 4 parents of their own.. and if we go back even further, to 40 years before my birth, then i'll find an additional 8 ancestors.. around the 60 year mark i have another 16 ancestors.

OneEyedJoe

While it's correct to say that we're all related, your math ought to account for the fact that no one's family tree is completely free from looping back around on itself when you go back that far. If it where then going back far enough would yield more ancestors than the human population of the time.

Edit: I just looked at the article you linked and that was one of the first points made....my bad.

65

How do I handle this situation?

by BarelyThere in

jw
friends

hey everyone.

i'm sorry that this isn't a very thought provoking post but i could really use some advice on how to handle this.

there isn't anyone else in my life i can ask right now because, being dfed, all of my friends are "worldly" and don't know how witnesses function.

OneEyedJoe

I was never an elder so I could be wrong, but something tells me that the typical BOE might not look so kindly upon you reporting this "exemplary" MS. You, are DFed (and are not to be mourned and are to be viewed as having been killed by Jehovah, according to a recent WT study) and you're a lowly weaker vessel. Making a choice between you and one of their own isn't going to be difficult for them. Once they decide that your information isn't worth acting on they'll then have to sort out a punishment for you for bringing it to them in the first place. It might not be a conscious decision to punish you for it, but given the paranoid nature of the cult I wouldn't be surprised if they "circle the wagons" and make sure you don't get reinstated because you now are seen as having a tendency to try to "cause divisions" or slander men in authority. You've absolutely got the deck stacked against you here.

Whether you move to a different congregation or not, I have no idea. Maybe someone who's an elder can give you some advice there as to whether there's any time penalty for getting reinstated in another congregation. If not, you'd probably have a better chance of getting reinstated if you can win over elders that don't know you and are starting fresh and get them to recommend you for reinstatement vs trying to win over elders that already have a bad opinion of you.