Posts by OneEyedJoe

9

WTBTS / GBoJW elevating status of their literature

by Nicholaus Kopernicus in

the following is a brief examination of one disturbing paragraph in the august 2016 study watchtower - "do you see the need to make spiritual progress?"11.

what spiritual qualities can we work to develop, and why are they important?

11 develop spiritual qualities.

OneEyedJoe

This reminds me of an article from a little over a year ago wherein they referred to 'the bible and the body of Christian teachings' or something like that. I remember pointing it out to my wife and asking "what are these Christian teachings they're referring to, if it's not from the bible?"

16

I have a plan....

by DATA-DOG in

with all of the bat-shit crazy propaganda of late, i'm considering talking to my wife about the cult.

we have had zero religious discussions for two years.

the last discussion ended with ,"you have no beliefs, no personal beliefs, because you change your "beliefs" when the wtbts writes an article.

OneEyedJoe

and she cried, saying that she would rather see me die, because at least we would be together ( platonic??) in Pandadise.

My wife said something very similar when I told her I didn't want to be a JW anymore. How can they not see that if their belief system leaves them wishing for the death of the person they love most maybe that's the source of the problem?

As for playing the anointed angle, I don't see how that will work if she's been keeping up with the latest indoctrination. A recent study article basically said that the anointed aren't special, and with the GB=FDS stuff, they've demoted the anointed into being essentially meaningless.

I like your plan for your daughter. No kids should have to live in fear that their parents will shun them at the drop of a hat. Maybe you could use something similar on your wife - point out that the phone call in the video could've been an emergency and the mother's shunning could've just as easily lead to their daughter's death as to her returning. Then ask if she could do that to your daughter just because she decided to disassociate or if she took blood to save her life.

In my experience trying to use doctrine to validate your position or to criticise the org is a lost cause. With my wife, if she didn't like the logical conclusion I came to when discussing doctrine, she would just concluded that I was mistaken and she just wasn't clever enough to figure out how. So I'd suggest skipping doctrine and going for her emotions. That's the cult's method because it works - win the emotional battle and the rest will follow.

Also, feel free to ignore me...I never managed to get anywhere with my wife. I knew the theory of how to wake someone up, but never was any good at putting it into practice. In any event, I feel for ya. You're in a shit spot to be sure, i wish you the best of luck.

3

What about this as an exhuse against being DF'd?

by purrpurr in

jw
friends

with the many examples in the bible of jehovah taking control of someone's heart and causing them therefore to sin and do something bad... what if when discovered in a sin a jw said to the elders that it was not them that sinned... oh no!

it was jehovah who put it into their hearts to sin!

therefore they cannot be held responsible for their actions.. the elders would not be able to prove otherwise, what would they do?.

OneEyedJoe

You're forgetting that Jehovah was an absolute asshole and even in cases where he made someone disobey, he still punished them. A prime example being pharaoh and the 10 plauges. God made his heart obstinate and then punished him for it. So if you use that as an excuse for "sin" then the elders will probably see no reason not to punish you nonetheless.

20

I feel frustrated

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

hello all, things for the most part have been somewhat better for me because my parents haven't talked about baptism or anything recently.

i got a scholarship to go to art camp for a few weeks which has been fun (since its free, my parents didn't refuse) but it has also been very nervewracking for me.

i haven't been around any non jws for more than a year and its like being in a different world, a world where people are actually real and genuine and not mindless drones.

OneEyedJoe

Ugh yeah I remember those days... i guess was never really aware I was in a cult, but the JW separateness never felt right to me so I would always make excuses for why I couldn't hang out with people outside of school.

I'm afraid I don't have any great advice for how to make people understand what you're going through. Most likely there won't be many young folks that will be able to understand, but I suspect there'll be some. Just keep trying, though maybe take it a little slower so you don't get people threatening to get you in trouble. It might take some effort and patience but you'll eventually find some kids that will understand. Unfortunately it may require that they, too, have suffered a traumatic childhood, but then maybe you'll be able to provide some much needed understanding to them.

Hang in there, keep trying, celebrate the little successes. Remember that you won't be stuck where you are forever, you will find freedom someday soon.

11

Man I hate this F'ing cult!

by oppostate in

the nicest and kindest jw's seem to be the ones who are the least connected and active in the congregation.. i've been trying to fade and been missing quite a few meetings.. of course my wife still loyal as ever if not more so since i've awoken to ttatt.. every mid-week and sunday meeting i miss she gives me the silent treatment.. she's become more and more friendly with a regular pioneer younger than she is and wife of an elder, this to the letting go of regular contact with best friends in the 0rganization, whom she was closest to but were and aren't as active and regular at meetings and field service.. it's a crying shame, i'm closer and kinder to her old friends, keeping in touch through facebook posts now and then, encouraging them through the hardships, rejoicing with them during happy moments, graduations, welcoming a new child to the world, marriages, new jobs and what-not.. she has become a serious shunner, staying away from a lot of folks we were close to because they're not good association.. she's drunk the whole cup of kool-aid and anything i say that's remotely negative towards the 0rganization is met with stern retorts and accusations i'm apostate sounding.. and yet, she's still the kind hearted, loving person she used to be.

it's like she has a wt hat she dons and it changes her mind, her outlook, her behavior.

when dealing with neighbors, with people outside the kh, she's as nice as could be and i know this kind-heartedness is genuine--but it's been hi-jacked by this f'ing cult.

OneEyedJoe

Every mid-week and Sunday meeting I miss she gives me the silent treatment.

Been there. As well as the bit about getting griped at for anything remotely critical of the org. My wife would even through a fit if I was watching one of my science shows and they said something about the age of the universe or something, even though the cult has backed away from the 49000 year timeline for creation.

I know how it feels. I'm sorry you're having to deal with it too...no one deserves to have to live like that. I hope it goes better for you than it did me. Wishing you the best of luck.

12

"Shunning" - now a Watchtower word?

by slimboyfat in

i know jws have long used the word "shun" in a general sense, as in "shun what is bad".

but i think they have long avoided using the word in relation to disfellowshipping.

in external media or literature wherever the word "shunning" was used in a piece about jws it was usually a good indication it was critical of watchtower and not a neutral or supportive commentary.

OneEyedJoe

Yeah this definitely looks like an about-face to me too. Like the others have said, I've been told I sound like an apostate for using the word in relation to disfellowshipping.

44

For those who are still in... What do you do about field service?

by Wait For It in

jw
friends

for those of you who are still in because of family circumstances, what do you do about field service?

do you still go regularly, sporadically or not at all?.

if you do still go, how do you manage?

OneEyedJoe

Probably won't help you but I always tried to get put in a car group that'd end up with an odd number and volunteer to go to doors by myself. Then just don't knock and say people were home and not interested so they don't get done as not at homes. Every so often I'd put a house on the do not call list.

If you think you might get in the position where you might have to offer magazines to someone, slip a note inside that says "sorry to bother you today, I'm trapped in this cult and keeping up appearances." Or something like that. As DY said you take down the call but throw it away when you get home. Take solace in the fact that even trying your very hardest in the recruiting work, there's only a small chance you'd ever convert someone. Doing it half-assed just for appearances, you're not going to hurt anyone else.

Aside from that, just get through the miserable affair like most JWs do: stay in the car as much as possible and take lots of long breaks.

Wish you the best of luck. I remember the days when I was still faking it and how hard it was. Take care of yourself - after a morning recruiting spring for a massage or some shopping or something else to unwind and release the tension.

41

Non-JW music teacher talks about JW.org

by Watchtower-Free in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzgd8oa2re .

OneEyedJoe

I'm not sure I understand the hate for someone trying to"deconvert" JW kids. He doesn't appear to be pushing any particular replacement ideology, and when he talked about studying with JWs it was all about asking questions they couldn't answer. Besides it's not like teachers don't routinely push their own agenda be it environmental, political, economic or social. Furthermore how can someone be "deconverted" if they don't want to? Is everyone still subscribing to the JW notion that people are so weak and easily influenced that you have to carefully guard your reading material and association lest your faith be destroyed without your having any say in the matter? This is a guy that appears to be genuinely concerned for the well-being of kids that are throwing their lives away in service of a damaging, manipulative cult.

Would people be saying he's crossed a line if he called CPS due to physically abusive parents? To me that's a much more extreme measure to take than just asking the kid some questions to give him something to think about. He's not physically removing the kid from the home like CPS might, he's just doing a little too try to empower kids to leave an emotionally and mentally abusive situation that can be just as damaging, in some cases more so, as a physical abusive home.

77

New commentary on revelation coming up?

by EdenOne in

i heard through the grapevine about a forthcoming book:.

together through the great tribulation - come to jehovah's mountain.

still awaiting solid confirmation though.

OneEyedJoe

For the people saying it'll never happen - I don't know if I agree. The title given seems plausible and goes along with the current trend of content that appeals to people purely on an emotional level. I can see them redoing the revelation book and leaving out the bulk of the prophetic interpretation and simply focusing on the frightening imagery and the happy ending. It wouldn't be that difficult to make a short illustrated book (probably with scary videos to go along with some sections) that talks about the terror of the great tribulation without really focusing on things like the UN being the scarlet colored wild beast. They've revised the interpretation of Gog of Magog so they've already inched towards revising some of the doctrine on revelation.

Also, if they're ever going to revise the 144k thing to be figurative, this would be the way to do it too.

Lastly, saying "they don't have anyone smart enough to write an interpretation of revelation" assumes that they're aware of their weaknesses. If they're really buying their own bullshit and think god is with them, there's nothing they'd be afraid to try to interpret and prognosticate on, assuming they'd get it right by virtue of being guided by holy spirit. I think enough of the GB are probably sufficiently genuine believers that any who are purely in it for the lifestyle would have to go along with something like this. I don't know a ton about the GB members, but the two most front facing ones (at least it seems to me that they are) - Lett and Morris - are too stupid or too arrogant (or both) respectively to consider the possibility that they might not be up to the task of interpreting revelation. As for the others: Herd is clearly a complete buffoon as evidenced by his "women have smaller brains" comments; Deciding whether to do a revelation book is probably outside of Jackson's department (as it seems everything is judging by his ARC testimony); Loesch doesn't have any control over the watchtower society if his signed affidavit is to be believed; Splane is probably just going along with whatever to try to keep the gravy train going so he can die in his new compound, so he wouldn't care; Sanderson is left as the only wild card that might worry about doing it, and he's the most junior member and would probably just go along with whatever the others decide. Snide comments aside, my point is that thinking there's something these idiots wouldn't dare do or that they're aware enough of their failings to shrink from the challenge is betting on something for which there is no evidence.

Obviously this isn't confirmed, but it seems plausible at least.

Edit: I agree regarding the cover - that doesn't look like something they'd produce.

22

Former Jehovah's Witness admits: We targeted grief-stricken as 'ripe fruit'

by Londo111 in

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/80708572/former-jehovahs-witness-admits-we-targeted-grief-stricken-as-ripe-fruit.

jehovah's witnesses target grief and see the recently bereaved as "ripe fruit" for conversion, a former elder of the faith says.. vince and michele tylor spoke out after reading the story of wellington woman jean sergent-shadbolt, who received a handwritten letter from a jehovah's witness three months to the day after her step-cousin, friend and flatmate died.. a current senior elder of the faith says it has no policy to target grieving, and those who do so are acting on their own initiative.

however, he concedes such people may feel guided by jehovah's witness literature.. but vince tylor said he knew of members who would trawl though obituaries to find grieving people, or visit cemeteries.. "not only do we see watchtower printed material suggesting and supporting writing letters from obituaries such as what jean received, but we even have reports and articles of encouragement for jws to go to cemeteries to look for people as well.".

OneEyedJoe

I am not trying to defend the WT but I recall a number of years ago how some sister got my ex wife to go through the news paper obituary and write to people who had just lost a loved one. After one elder told my ex that this was frowned on by the WT but then like everything else when it comes to the WT, it is possible their policies have changed on this issue.

That's the sort of thing that will vary from congregation to congregation based on the elders. Since there's no official encouragement to do this (yes, there are examples given, but I'm not aware of it being actually encouraged that JWs do this - i.e. nothing in the KM suggesting it as a method for preaching like they do letter writing or phone calling in general), it will depend on the individual elders and how they balance the urgency of preaching against the need to be considerate to non-believers. Some elders will see that this practice probably will put off more than it'll recruit and others are going to be driven solely by the possibility of reaching that one person at the moment they ~~are most vulnerable~~ have the right heart condition.