i know this is an old topic, but it came to mind again.... yes it is appropriate for people to dress neatly and respectfully for a dignified religious gathering, but why does it have to be a full suit with collared shirt and tie?.
why does it have to be a full dress or skirt and jacket?.
sure, we would find it distasteful for a person to arrive in swimwear or work overalls or other inappropriate attire, but why does it have to conform to strict standards?.
best type error ever one eyed Joe! The required dress code is apparently the same as the meeting content and the organization. there must be a proverb that says something like 'you can't groom a shit'
Lol! Blasted autocorrect! I guess it figured out the spirit of what I was saying and decided shit was much more appropriate than suit. The computers are having Freudian slips. I for one welcome our new robot overlords.
i know this is an old topic, but it came to mind again.... yes it is appropriate for people to dress neatly and respectfully for a dignified religious gathering, but why does it have to be a full suit with collared shirt and tie?.
why does it have to be a full dress or skirt and jacket?.
sure, we would find it distasteful for a person to arrive in swimwear or work overalls or other inappropriate attire, but why does it have to conform to strict standards?.
Yup. When I was first waking up this particular part of the B in BITE didn't even register with me because it was just so normal to me. I didn't even realize how controlled was until I was awake for a while.
When I was still a fully believing JW, I had a conversation with a worldly workmate in which it came up that I needed to change into a shit for a meeting and she asked me "you can't just go as you are? They won't accept you?" The question made no sense to me at first but I just went off about how it is a sign of respect for god. No thought given to the fact that it doesn't require a full suit to show respect - I've gone on job interviews (in an office setting) dressed much less formally and I've gotten compliments on my attire (got the job too) so why is this full suit required? Particularly in the summer or while working parking at the convention in 100+ degree heat? It's all about control. It's all training you to blindly obey. Getting you conditioned to do exactly as you're told or expect consequences. As JWs love to say - faithful in what is least, faithful in what is most. Just replace faithful with obedient/controlled.
me and my wife were at the beach the other day and i finally told her, i don't think i believe in god anymore.
i fessed up to the fact that it started with me doubting some jw beliefs and then it just led me to this point where i don't even believe in god.
i wouldn't say that i even have a negative view towards jw's or religion in general.
What Lisa said - that's a decision that no one here is qualified to make for you, but it's definitely a tough one. Have you thought about seeing a therapist? They can help you work through things to figure out what you really want and what the best course of action is. A good therapist won't influence you, they'll just help you to make the decision yourself.
I eventually decided to end my marriage. I gave it some time after leaving the cult to try to make things work, but it went downhill fast. From your tone, it sounds like your wife is handling things in a much more measured and respectful manner than mine, which bodes well for you. You'll have to figure out what sacrifices you're willing to make, though. I couldn't keep going to meetings and I didn't want to live by the cult's rules. I wanted to start living a normal life but my wife would never support me in that and was only negative about anything new I did.
It'll probably take you both a while to settle in to the new normal, whatever that is. Once you start to see what that looks like, you'll probably have a better idea of what you want to do.
There's no need to rush this, just be honest with her and yourself and it'll either work or it'll start to become clear that it's not going to. Good luck!
the following is a brief examination of one disturbing paragraph in the august 2016 study watchtower - "do you see the need to make spiritual progress?"11.
what spiritual qualities can we work to develop, and why are they important?
11 develop spiritual qualities.
This reminds me of an article from a little over a year ago wherein they referred to 'the bible and the body of Christian teachings' or something like that. I remember pointing it out to my wife and asking "what are these Christian teachings they're referring to, if it's not from the bible?"
with all of the bat-shit crazy propaganda of late, i'm considering talking to my wife about the cult.
we have had zero religious discussions for two years.
the last discussion ended with ,"you have no beliefs, no personal beliefs, because you change your "beliefs" when the wtbts writes an article.
and she cried, saying that she would rather see me die, because at least we would be together ( platonic??) in Pandadise.
My wife said something very similar when I told her I didn't want to be a JW anymore. How can they not see that if their belief system leaves them wishing for the death of the person they love most maybe that's the source of the problem?
As for playing the anointed angle, I don't see how that will work if she's been keeping up with the latest indoctrination. A recent study article basically said that the anointed aren't special, and with the GB=FDS stuff, they've demoted the anointed into being essentially meaningless.
I like your plan for your daughter. No kids should have to live in fear that their parents will shun them at the drop of a hat. Maybe you could use something similar on your wife - point out that the phone call in the video could've been an emergency and the mother's shunning could've just as easily lead to their daughter's death as to her returning. Then ask if she could do that to your daughter just because she decided to disassociate or if she took blood to save her life.
In my experience trying to use doctrine to validate your position or to criticise the org is a lost cause. With my wife, if she didn't like the logical conclusion I came to when discussing doctrine, she would just concluded that I was mistaken and she just wasn't clever enough to figure out how. So I'd suggest skipping doctrine and going for her emotions. That's the cult's method because it works - win the emotional battle and the rest will follow.
Also, feel free to ignore me...I never managed to get anywhere with my wife. I knew the theory of how to wake someone up, but never was any good at putting it into practice. In any event, I feel for ya. You're in a shit spot to be sure, i wish you the best of luck.
with the many examples in the bible of jehovah taking control of someone's heart and causing them therefore to sin and do something bad... what if when discovered in a sin a jw said to the elders that it was not them that sinned... oh no!
it was jehovah who put it into their hearts to sin!
therefore they cannot be held responsible for their actions.. the elders would not be able to prove otherwise, what would they do?.
You're forgetting that Jehovah was an absolute asshole and even in cases where he made someone disobey, he still punished them. A prime example being pharaoh and the 10 plauges. God made his heart obstinate and then punished him for it. So if you use that as an excuse for "sin" then the elders will probably see no reason not to punish you nonetheless.
hello all, things for the most part have been somewhat better for me because my parents haven't talked about baptism or anything recently.
i got a scholarship to go to art camp for a few weeks which has been fun (since its free, my parents didn't refuse) but it has also been very nervewracking for me.
i haven't been around any non jws for more than a year and its like being in a different world, a world where people are actually real and genuine and not mindless drones.
Ugh yeah I remember those days... i guess was never really aware I was in a cult, but the JW separateness never felt right to me so I would always make excuses for why I couldn't hang out with people outside of school.
I'm afraid I don't have any great advice for how to make people understand what you're going through. Most likely there won't be many young folks that will be able to understand, but I suspect there'll be some. Just keep trying, though maybe take it a little slower so you don't get people threatening to get you in trouble. It might take some effort and patience but you'll eventually find some kids that will understand. Unfortunately it may require that they, too, have suffered a traumatic childhood, but then maybe you'll be able to provide some much needed understanding to them.
Hang in there, keep trying, celebrate the little successes. Remember that you won't be stuck where you are forever, you will find freedom someday soon.
the nicest and kindest jw's seem to be the ones who are the least connected and active in the congregation.. i've been trying to fade and been missing quite a few meetings.. of course my wife still loyal as ever if not more so since i've awoken to ttatt.. every mid-week and sunday meeting i miss she gives me the silent treatment.. she's become more and more friendly with a regular pioneer younger than she is and wife of an elder, this to the letting go of regular contact with best friends in the 0rganization, whom she was closest to but were and aren't as active and regular at meetings and field service.. it's a crying shame, i'm closer and kinder to her old friends, keeping in touch through facebook posts now and then, encouraging them through the hardships, rejoicing with them during happy moments, graduations, welcoming a new child to the world, marriages, new jobs and what-not.. she has become a serious shunner, staying away from a lot of folks we were close to because they're not good association.. she's drunk the whole cup of kool-aid and anything i say that's remotely negative towards the 0rganization is met with stern retorts and accusations i'm apostate sounding.. and yet, she's still the kind hearted, loving person she used to be.
it's like she has a wt hat she dons and it changes her mind, her outlook, her behavior.
when dealing with neighbors, with people outside the kh, she's as nice as could be and i know this kind-heartedness is genuine--but it's been hi-jacked by this f'ing cult.
Every mid-week and Sunday meeting I miss she gives me the silent treatment.
Been there. As well as the bit about getting griped at for anything remotely critical of the org. My wife would even through a fit if I was watching one of my science shows and they said something about the age of the universe or something, even though the cult has backed away from the 49000 year timeline for creation.
I know how it feels. I'm sorry you're having to deal with it too...no one deserves to have to live like that. I hope it goes better for you than it did me. Wishing you the best of luck.
i know jws have long used the word "shun" in a general sense, as in "shun what is bad".
but i think they have long avoided using the word in relation to disfellowshipping.
in external media or literature wherever the word "shunning" was used in a piece about jws it was usually a good indication it was critical of watchtower and not a neutral or supportive commentary.
Yeah this definitely looks like an about-face to me too. Like the others have said, I've been told I sound like an apostate for using the word in relation to disfellowshipping.
for those of you who are still in because of family circumstances, what do you do about field service?
do you still go regularly, sporadically or not at all?.
if you do still go, how do you manage?
Probably won't help you but I always tried to get put in a car group that'd end up with an odd number and volunteer to go to doors by myself. Then just don't knock and say people were home and not interested so they don't get done as not at homes. Every so often I'd put a house on the do not call list.
If you think you might get in the position where you might have to offer magazines to someone, slip a note inside that says "sorry to bother you today, I'm trapped in this cult and keeping up appearances." Or something like that. As DY said you take down the call but throw it away when you get home. Take solace in the fact that even trying your very hardest in the recruiting work, there's only a small chance you'd ever convert someone. Doing it half-assed just for appearances, you're not going to hurt anyone else.
Aside from that, just get through the miserable affair like most JWs do: stay in the car as much as possible and take lots of long breaks.
Wish you the best of luck. I remember the days when I was still faking it and how hard it was. Take care of yourself - after a morning recruiting spring for a massage or some shopping or something else to unwind and release the tension.
