Abbadon,
Now, if you're happy with a smorgasboard belief structure you weave yourself then that is great for you. But that is a far different thing from proving there is such an entity. The Bible doesn't do that, not does any other religious book.
There is no absolute proof of God's existence, or his non-existence. As I said before I don't think you can use the Bible to prove God's existence, and neither can you use natural science to prove God's existence. And by the same token neither can you use natural science to disapprove God's existence because quite simply it's out of the domain of natural science to speak on such matters, using science in such a way is a farce.
If you want to start a thread about how obvious creation makes god existence, go ahead. But I assure you it's a hard task to prove this, and you might want to keep your belief that this is so a personal one that you feel happy with and don't have or want to defend.
Belief or nonbelief in God, is purely subjective, there is no test one can perform to demonstrate either belief. You look at creation and you see no god, I look at creation and I see god, it's all according to our personal bias.
However, your belief that 'god reveals himself to those who really look' is offensive.
I've really did not mean to be offensive, I wasn't implying that you not looking, you really might be I don't know, I'm not your judge, and so when I offered that statement I wasn't trying to judge you in any way or to be offensive, it's just that I strongly feel if you are looking for god you will find him. Please don't take any offense because that's not why I said what I did.
You prejudge anyone who doesn't believe in god as someone who hasn't really looked and who has therefore NOT had god personally reveal himself to them. You make it that persons FAULT that god hasn't revealed himself to them. Without any real knowledge of me or my life you assume you have a personal proof god is real is cause YOU tried and I didn't. How do you know that? How do you know that you don;t believe in god because you so desperately NEED to believe in a god that you've convinced yourself of its existence?
Please don't take offense, I don't mean to judge anybody, I offered my statement not as a judgment of you or anybody. I offered it solely as a defense for God, and not as a judgment for those who don't believe. For I believe that God is pure and holy in everything he does, even though we who have limited intelligence, might not think so. Please notice I said "we" and not "you".
You might feel this is fair, but your belief is just part of the modern god of smoke/smorgasboard belief structure of many modern believers in god who make their exact beliefs so unbased on any scripture that they must feel their personal opinions (or those of others) are some form of divine revelation. Like, where does it say all this? I don't know; I do know it says don't judge people, and that's what you are doing, event if that isn't your intention. And if where it says all this (if you can provide scriptual backing for your belief) is in such a flawed book, why should we assume that the bit you base this condemnatory belief on isn't as flawed and human and made-up as the rest ? Just on your say so?
The reason why I commented on this thread, was not to defend my beliefs, but to defend God's word the Bible. I know the fundamentalist, would not consider my defense very good, as well as the atheists. Nonetheless, I have thought long and hard about these things for quite some time, your thread is a subject in which I can become rather chatty. And so I figured I'd throw myself into the fray and see what happens.
Actually I think it's good when people that have different opposing ideas get-together in a kind of mental tug of war that require a lot of thinking. I think good things come of it sometimes. And so I offer my opinions that are contrary to yours, and you retort back with counter arguments, that make me think, and all the while I think progress is being made on both sides, for argument makes us concentrate, rethink our position, and correct any flaws(hopefully).
This is why the idea of god making its existence a matter of debate is so ridiculous. If our future depends on our conforming to some code but there is not enough evidence to subscribe divine authorship to that code, then refusing to conform to that code on the assumption it (along with all competing divine codes) is NOT divine, as there is no evidence is REASONABLE.
I think the way God has done things, to be flawless, and demonstrates a wisdom that is far beyond our "ken". When you can invent the laws of the universe, that work as harmoniously together as to produce life, like this universe,, then maybe you might be to position the call God ridiculous, but not before.
The idea of a god destroying someone for making a reasonable decison based on facts is just silly; if god is like that he can go right ahead as I want nothing to do with such an entity
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Rather than belief in such a joke of a god, I believe if there IS anything, then it is far beyond whatever petty concepts humans have built up (such as a god who hides and kills those who do not believe in him), and from the evidence on hand has had no personal communiaction with any one on this planet, and in fact may not even be our creator and heavenly father in theNow by "petty human concepts", to be fair and honest can yours be included in that term as well as mine???
I don't claim to know what God's final judgments will be, for all I know there might be universal salvation.
The way I look at it is this way, we will have to stand before the throne of God for his judgments on us "individually", those who have "genuine faith" in Jesus Christ will be given a favorable judgment. As to how God will make that judgment I don't have foggiest idea. And since I believe that God is love I feel that it will be entirely fair and in harmony with his personality as expressed in the personality of Jesus Christ when he walked this earth. Remember Jesus words when he was on the cross "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do", this makes me think that forgiveness, and mercy, will predominate, to what extent I do not know and niether does any preacher of the Gospel, even though he may say otherwise.
