i was an elder
frankiespeakin
JoinedPosts by frankiespeakin
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52
Were you ever an Elder? Read this Please.
by Amazing inhi guys, men, former-elders:.
the last leg of the legal project is afoot.
it is good, no gooder, no great!!!.
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Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 8
by hooberus injehovah saith unto my lord, sit thou at my right hand, until i make thine enemies thy footstool.
" psalm 110:1 asv.
unitarians tend to look at psalm 110:1 in this way:.
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frankiespeakin
LT,
From your link:
These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time, only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three persons in the Trinity even though it retains the divinity of Christ.
I wouldn't say that my beleifs are modalism, and I must confess I never heard of the term.
I think God is the great Absolute Reality, and since He created time and space is not confined to its limitations like we are. I tend to think that "perhaps," God's personality is infinite (not like ours "mono") and far beyond anything our human intellect can conjure up in the imagination. For He can even be far more than just a "trinity," He may be an "infinity" of personalities and all of them fully loving in its purest form.
I also tend to think that all these many stars throughout the universe, that a certain percentage have planets that have evolved intelligent life like us on them. And just like us, God has communicated with them through inspired messages and even personally visited them the same way he visited us through Jesus Christ, by taking on whatever life form that they are, and if they are disobedient like us, which I'm sure high percentage are, being that God has given them free moral agency, that God in that form was also put to death, in order to pay the penalty for sin and to make possible for them to get everlasting life with Him.
In this belief I don't think I'm out of harmony with God's word the Bible. While I personally don't know that any religion teaches this, these are my own conclusions that are not written in stone and subject to change through divine revelation.
But I must admit that CS Lewis has had a great influence on me. I think that a good imagination goes along way it holding God in awe. In fact I think that are imagination has a lot to do with how big box we put God in. If we have a small imagination the box we put God in his very small, and if we a big imagination the box we put God is that much bigger,, of course God cannot fit into any of those boxes, because we cannot possibly imagine how great God really is.
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Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 8
by hooberus injehovah saith unto my lord, sit thou at my right hand, until i make thine enemies thy footstool.
" psalm 110:1 asv.
unitarians tend to look at psalm 110:1 in this way:.
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frankiespeakin
LT,
I would like to give some comments with regard to the question you asked Hoober.
I think since God created time and space, he lives outside of these, and so some of the things that Jesus says quite naturally should be confusing to us who are only familair with living inside of time and space.
I would like to use a modern metaphor, for Jesus, and say that he was facsimile(FAX) of God, I think it's very poor metaphor, but nonetheless true, but only very limitedly, ,,perhaps all metaphors of which we use to discribe God can only be used in a very limited way to help us to understand or discribe God.
God being outside of time, is not bound by it, nor is he bound by space. So God could divest Himself (so to speak) of all his glory and come to this earth, but since he is beyond our comprehension, and not bound by time, He could still be spoken of as still in heaven even while Jesus was on Earth.(one of the perks of not being bound by space-time)
Jesus being God divested of all his glory, could now be spoken of as the "Son of God." Being that he was "now man" and subject to all the limitation that men are subject to, and as such he would be obliged to worship God, even though he was God.
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SECRET INFO FROM ANNUAL MEETING.
by integ ini received this e-mail from a friend of a friend of a friend who was at the secret annual meeting.
hi brothers and sisters,.
our 2004 year text, matt.
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frankiespeakin
According to those words of Jesus, Christians are always to be on the watch.
If you look closely at Matthew 24 or Luke 21 or Mark 13 we see the Jesus warns us "against" looking at natural disasters, wars, earthquakes, or food shortages, as being a sign of his comming because this is what people naturally have a tendency to do, and this is exactly what Jesus warned his disciples not to do.
Jesus said that he would come in an hour we least likely expect it, thus the need to be on the watch, for: "his coming" not some "preliminary signs" to indicate his coming his close.
Jesus also said to be on of watch for false to prophets that would say he has come or the time is at hand (mark 13:21 luke 21:8) And this is exactly what the WT has done.
Christian should always be on the watch, this a good thing which helps us live our lives as Jesus lived his,,, doing good,,, and avoiding badness. We should always live our lives with the thought that we could die tomorrow or that Jesus Christ could come tomorrow, that doesn't mean we don't make furure plans for retirement or seeing to it that our children get a good education, it means living life with out the entanglements of sin.
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Reading the Bible as Literature? A more modern approach
by frankiespeakin inreading the bible as literature, is something that scholars have been doing for quite some time.
below is a link, to 13 introductory pages, to the book " how to read the bible as literature".
the 13 introductory pages, make some valid points.
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frankiespeakin
Here's an interesting essay link and partial quote:
http://crain.english.mwsc.edu/bible_as_literature/biblethemes.htm
Should I Read the Bible as Literature?
Absolutely! In fact, the Bible reader must be a reader of literature. Why? First of all, the Bible as an anthology of literature, tells the story of humankind; it is a story of tradition revealing the present. Genesis chronicles the beginning of humankind. From the beginning, humans are described as finite creatures who must learn their limitations yet yearn for release from them. Eve is mother of humankind; Adam is formed from the earth itself, although made in the image of God, having the divine inbreathed; he asks for and is given a clone of himself to discover, ironically, that human will seeks in its own choices to pronounce "good" solely of itself, to deny its own nakedness and ignorance, to usurp divine right to autonomy, and to enter into a conflict with God, nature, and humankind. Apart from arguments of the existence or inexistence of this God, our literary inheritance provides us with a rich repository of perspectives on this experienced conflict.
The issues of "literal" or "symbolic" create an unfortunate tension for many beginning readers of the Bible. To begin to read, though, is to be drawn immediately into the middle of symbolism: the alphabet itself is a symbol system; words themselves form from an active combining of symbols, both in the creation of text and in the reading and interpretation of text. Not to read symbolically is not to read at all. The Oxford Companion to the Bible rightly cautions the reader about any stance taken toward symbolism.....
Reading the Bible as literature, one recognizes several familiar themes repeated: one is the theme of creation/new beginnings. We see this in reiterative story chains: Moses leads people through the sea onto dry land to begin a new life (Ex. 14-15); Joshua crosses the Jordan River (3.7-17); Jacob crosses the Jabbok in Gen. 32.22. In this, one discovers a reiteration of the original division of waters at creation, separating chaos from new order.
Yet another familiar theme is God's war against the godless. Destruction stories abound: Babylon (Jeremiah 50-51), Samaria and Jerusalem (2 Kings 17 and 25); prophecies of destructions against God's enemies (Jeremiah 46-49); Great flood (Gen 6-9); Soddom and Gomorrah (Gen 19); Noah and Lot fill the role of surviving remnant. The metaphor of cosmic war is a much repeated motif; look at
Psalms 2, 8, 89, 110. This cosmic war is picked up in the New Testament in the book of Revelation. Moreover, the reiterations continue the theme that God will preserve His own chosen remnant, both the literal Jerusalem and the spiritual New Jerusalem. Consider Zechariah: : Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2: For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4: And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5: And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8: And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9: And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
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Help? What Can I Do? - a response
by Dogpatch ini am passing this on for your information, if you need to give advice (or need advice) for those getting involved in any way with the watchtower.
it is for christians and non-christians, so take what you will from it.
the jehovah's witnesses will want the kids raised as jehovah's witnesses and teach them all of the society's peculiar doctrines behind your back.
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frankiespeakin
Randy,
I only read part of it, I agree with about 90% but think he goes a little overboard in some of his statments.
Examples:
They will literally teach the kids to "hate" the non-Jehovah Witness mate.
For them to remain married to a non-Jehovah Witness who is against the Society, in their mind this would be rejecting God, God's organization (the Watchtower Society), and hope of salvation for their children.
I think these statements are not really true, they may be true in some cases but not the majority. -
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Is the Trinity that damn important?
by logansrun inasked my dad the other day, a man who da'd himself seven years ago yet, amazingly, still believes 99% of what the dubs teach just what makes him believe the dubs have the "truth.
" what were the first words out of his mouth?
"well, they don't believe in the trinity...." .
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frankiespeakin
The way I see it, the Watchtower tries to make it look like salvation depends on getting the 95% right on some type of Bible quiz.
That's how their form of exclusivity works. They give everyone who studies the Bible with them the impression that if you don't have the right answers to Bible questions then you're going to be destroyed everlastingly, but if you stick with then you'll have the right answers to the Bible and that God will spare your life. The God they worship is very petty and will be destroyed if you don't get a good score on a Bible quiz.
Of course the Bible literally teaches that if we have faith in Jesus Christ we will get salvation. A person can have faith in Jesus Christ and beleive he is God's son and not necessarily believe that he's God, or you can have faith that he is God's son and God at the same time. I really don't think it matters all that much to have the exact correct understanding in this matter, for who can clearly understand God since he is so different from anything that we have ever encountered in the physical universe.
The Watchtower makes it look like this is a life or death matter because it suits their purposes and it makes their claims seem justifiable that they are the "only true religion" because they have all the "right doctrines" as if God has made haveing all the right doctrines necessary, and of primary importants for salvation, and faith in Jesus merely secondary.
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Reading the Bible as Literature? A more modern approach
by frankiespeakin inreading the bible as literature, is something that scholars have been doing for quite some time.
below is a link, to 13 introductory pages, to the book " how to read the bible as literature".
the 13 introductory pages, make some valid points.
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frankiespeakin
The link above has 13 pages from the book "A Complete Literary Guide to the Bible"
Here is a partial quote page 6:
Literature enacts rather than states, shows rather then tells. Instead of giving abstract propositions about virtue or vice, for example, literature presents stories of good or evil characters in action. The command that you shall not murder is propositional and direct, while the story of Cain and Able embodies the same truth in the distinct literary form of narrative,, a narrative we should note,, that does not even use the word murder. When we read a literary text we do not feel primarily that we have been given new information but rather that we have undergone an experience....
The chapters that follow have a lot to say about the form in which the Bible comes to us and the relation of that form to ideology, but they will say relatively little about ideas per se. They will have more to say about the human experience presented in the Bible than about theological ideas. A noted theologian has said that "we are far more image-making and image-using creatures than we usually think ourselves to be and ... are guided and formed by images in our minds" adding that "the human race grasps and shapes reality with the aid of great images, metaphors, and analogies." The essays in this volume share this literary bias and believed that the Bible confirms it.
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Wisdom of Solomon
by frankiespeakin inwisdom of solomon
the first woman said while tugging at one arm "this man promise to marry my daughter!
" so solomon said "then we shall split this young man in half and give each woman half.
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frankiespeakin
Wisdom of Solomon
Being XJW I'm sure we're all very familiar with Solomon's judgment of the two prostitutes who came to him for his decision as to whom the baby really belonged, and how he said that the baby should be split in half, and each women should recieve half. Of coarse the real mother's inner feelings surfaced when the life of the child was threatening and this is how Solomon was able to know who the real mother was.
There is another story I heard about Solomon, though it is not written in the Bible concerning a similar event that happened some years later, whether it is true or not I'll let you be the judge:
This event is about two mothers and a 25-year-old man. They came Solomon each tugging on a different arm of this young man, each saying that this young man promised to marry their daughters.
The first woman said while tugging at one arm "this man promise to marry my daughter!" and the second woman tugging on the other arm said, "no he promise to marry my daughter!" So Solomon said "then we shall split this young man in half and give each woman half. At that first woman said "that's fine with me, go ahead and split him in half" and the second woman says "oh no! don't split him in half let the other women have him for her daughter, for she is telling the truth he really promised to marry her daughter and not mine"
At this Solomon said, "give him to the first woman, because she truly spoke as the real mother-in-law."
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Reading the Bible as Literature? A more modern approach
by frankiespeakin inreading the bible as literature, is something that scholars have been doing for quite some time.
below is a link, to 13 introductory pages, to the book " how to read the bible as literature".
the 13 introductory pages, make some valid points.
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frankiespeakin
Reading the Bible as Literature, is something that scholars have been doing for quite some time. Below is a link, to 13 introductory pages, to the book " How to read the Bible as literature"
The 13 introductory pages, make some valid points. Of course this information is probably considered heresy by the fundamentalist and their literal interpretation of the Bible.
One point that I appreciated, in this introduction to the book is his showing the practical value of the Bible being written as literature and being read as literature is his quote of Jesus words to the young lawyer in explaining who really is his neighbor. As we know Jesus told the story about a man who is robbed and beaten, and about the three people that passed his way, and which one of these was really a neighbor.
This is an excerpt page five:
Everything in this passage makes it a piece of literature we should note first that Jesus never give an abstract or propositional definition of "neighbor." instead he tells a story that embodies what it means to be a "neighbor." This suggests at once, the most important thing about literature: its subject matter is human experience, not abstract ideas. Literature incarnates its meaning as concretely as possible. The knowledge that literature gives of a subject is the kind of knowledge that is obtained by (vicariously) living through experience. Jesus could have defined "neighbor" abstractly as a dictionary does, but he chose a literary approach to the truth instead.
.... because literature presents an experience instead of telling us about that experience,, it constantly appeals to our imagination (the image making and image-perceiving capacity within us). Literature images forth some aspects of reality...