Posts by opusdei1972

12

God was the cause of the evil

by opusdei1972 in

bart ehrman noticed, in his book "god's problem", the fact that god was responsible for job's pain.

to show it, bart quoted the following verse:.

and they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the lord had brought upon him.

opusdei1972

According to the book, God let Satan to test Job's loyalty. So Bart noticed that not all was by Satan's guilty, but it was because God wanted too, and the verse 42:11 admits it.

12

God was the cause of the evil

by opusdei1972 in

bart ehrman noticed, in his book "god's problem", the fact that god was responsible for job's pain.

to show it, bart quoted the following verse:.

and they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the lord had brought upon him.

opusdei1972

Bart Ehrman noticed, in his book "God's Problem", the fact that God was responsible for Job's pain. To show it, Bart quoted the following verse:

And they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him.(Jogb 42:11, ESV)

However, the Watchtower Society mistranslated the hebrew verb "bow" (to bring to pass) so as to mean "to allow to come":

They sympathized with him and comforted him over all the calamity that Jehovah had allowed to come upon him. (Job 42:11, New World Translation)

I don't think that this hebrew verb has the passive meaning of " allow". Note how it was used here:

In the course of time Cain brought (bow) to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground, (Gen. 4:3)

The Watchtower tried to show Yahweh less evil ?

57

How many of you still believe in God or are still Christians?

by JWCartPusher in

hello, i asked a new but old friend how many people are still christians after leaving the watchtower's mind control agency, for statistical purposes do you mind if i do a survey and see how many of you are believers?.

please don't post if your not a believer out of respect for this poll, we need to sharpen each other's sword and help build each other up and meet new friends over the internet with faith in god or some other force of the universe.

i asked another person how we can still manage our faith after getting burned by the high group mind control, he had a few ideas but he's not really involved with god because of how life burned him.

opusdei1972

I don't reject the idea of the existence of superior beings yet (whatever be their nature). However, the idea of a loving poweful god which is preached by the churches is false.

Read "The God's Problem" by Bart Ehrman, I strongly recomend it.

23

Splane's Anti Catholic Rant

by Listener in

a talk was given by gb member david splane in the february 2015 jw broadcasting video.

he talks about unity and sings the praises of jws.

he points his finger at the catholics and says this about them (39.32)-.

opusdei1972

Splane should tell to the Witnesses the truth about The Society's position. Let us read a portion of the letter that the Society wrote to Hitler:

The Brooklyn headquarter of the Watchtower Society is pro German in an exemplary way and has been so for many years. For that reason, in 1918, the president of the Society and seven members of the board of directors were sentenced to 80 years in prison, because the president refused to use two of the magazines published in America under his direction for war propaganda against Germany. These two magazines, "The Watchtower" and "Bible Student" were the only magazines in America which refused to engage in anti-German propaganda and for that reason were prohibited and suppressed in America during the war. (Rutherford's letter to Hitler)

This was a big lie, because in 1918, under Rutherford, The Watchtower endorsed to buy war bonds (Liberty Bonds) to support the United States against Germany. Let's read what the Watchtower said:

The International Bible Student's Association is not against the Liberty Loan. Many of its members have bought and hold Liberty Bonds[...]Every Christian obeys the law. The United States has always stood for religious liberty and freedom of speech. Every Christian appreciates the privilege of living in such a country and gladly meets his obligations in the payment of taxes. When the Government asks to borrow his money and gives its promises to pay in the nature of a bond, if he can do so he should buy the bond. (15 May 1918 Watch Tower, p. 152)

Also, the Watchtower was joined in a prayer in favor to the allies against Germany, as the Proclaimers book admits on page 191:

“Although they endeavored to do what they felt was pleasing to God, their position was not always one of strict neutrality … Thus, in accord with a proclamation of the President of the United States, The Watch Tower urged the Bible Students to join in observing May 30, 1918, as a day of prayer and supplication in connection with the outcome of the world war. [The Watch Tower, June 1, 1918, p. 174]”

So, Rutherford was not neutral during the First World War, and he was not pro German. Interestingly, these things were published during the time of Jesus' inspection (1914-1919, according to the new light).

31

the Witch of Endor

by Magnum in

1sa 28:3-25 (nwt - not revised version).

7 finally saul said to his servants: seek for me a woman who is a mistress of spirit mediumship, and i will go to her and consult her.

then his servants said to him: look!

opusdei1972

Magnum:

I started to see the big problem of interpreting the Bible when reading the Church Fathers. I began to read them, because I wanted to find the "pure" teachings of the Society in the early christian writers. However, I found the opposite, and I began to understand that the Septuagint differs from the Hebrew Bible, and it caused a great problem between christians and Jews. So I wondered why Jehovah let "His Word" to be changed. So, I concluded that each word of the Bible can't be the word of God, because we have two versions of the Old Testament. This was the beginning of my surprises.

31

the Witch of Endor

by Magnum in

1sa 28:3-25 (nwt - not revised version).

7 finally saul said to his servants: seek for me a woman who is a mistress of spirit mediumship, and i will go to her and consult her.

then his servants said to him: look!

opusdei1972

Talking about demons, one could think about the ethical inconsistency presented in two of the first Gospels, where we read that the earth was given to Satan by God Himself. If this were so, God is also responsible for the pain and wickednedd of this world, because we born in a world dominated by an evil superior being.

31

the Witch of Endor

by Magnum in

1sa 28:3-25 (nwt - not revised version).

7 finally saul said to his servants: seek for me a woman who is a mistress of spirit mediumship, and i will go to her and consult her.

then his servants said to him: look!

opusdei1972

Hi Magnum ,

I have to say that the early church fathers were divided on this point. Justin Martyr thought that he [the spirit] was Samuel, whereas Tertullian held the Watchtower's view. Nevertheless, Tertullian's view was weakly argued like the Watctower.

I am currently not a Bible believer, however, I like to do some "textual criticism". So, I currently admit that the Bible teaches contradictory views, because each writer had his own agenda.

Regards,

opus

31

the Witch of Endor

by Magnum in

1sa 28:3-25 (nwt - not revised version).

7 finally saul said to his servants: seek for me a woman who is a mistress of spirit mediumship, and i will go to her and consult her.

then his servants said to him: look!

opusdei1972

I did my own research on this issue, and I concluded that this passage is simply against to the Watchtower's soul-sleep doctrine. The book of Ecclesiasticus says:

And after this he [Samuel] slept, and he made known to the king [Saul], and shewed him the end of his life, and he lifted up his voice from the earth in prophecy to blot out the wickedness of the nation. (Ecclesiasticus 46:23)

This was the interpretation that ancient jews (like Josephus) held about that reading. They did not think that a demon was speaking, but the spirit of Samuel himself. Also, this is the natural reading.

25

Bible Christianity is Holy baloney

by Half banana in

underpinning all the claims of the jw org is a belief in the sanctity of the bible as gods word.

this holy assumption is certainly never challenged by the watchtower and neither does the believer dare to use critical thinking to evaluate the source of his or her beliefs.

the watchtower org, for obvious reasons would not do this as they would need to sell up and hand back the money were they to admit that the bible is just a piece of literature and not divine in origin.

opusdei1972

Phizzy: I am not against religious beliefs per se. However, I am against to authoritarian institutions which use religious dogmas to dominate people. Of course, christian institutions are not unique in it.

I was a Jehovah's witness, and then I was active in a christian forum of ex-witnesses, not long ago. Interestingly, when I noticed the Bible frauds, I shared the Bible contradictions in that forum, and some people of the forum showed their actual christian face by insulting me. One of them, studied theology in a christian seminar, and was very angry by my posts. He could not resist my arguments, and wrote that I am dangerous for those of faith, and he would not chat with me anymore. So, I understood that some ex-witnesses are still mentally witnesses because they are still following some shunning policies of the NT. I also noted that these seminars of theology are intended to teach and defend lies by using scholarly terms, but they are all academic baloney!!!.

I remember when AlanF was invited to that forum for a while, and I enjoyed the debates, though at that time I was still a christian believer.

I am not saying that all christians are fanatic, but if they want to follow strictly the Bible, they had to be.

19

Scan Of Telegram To Hitler

by Bangalore in

scan of telegram to hitler.. .

bangalore.

opusdei1972

I don't think that that telegram was a good way to threaten an evil crazy guy like Hitler. This, of course, caused more angry in him, and more witnesses were tortured for that. Rutherford was in his confortable room threatening Hitler, far away from Germany, so, the german witnesses had to face that challenge, not the president of the Watchtower.