The same happened with Adam, before the scientific proofs against his existence, the churches said that he was a literal man, but now their best scholars say : "no, he is the symbol of human being". The same happened with the parouxia, Jesus said it would happen in his generation, but this prophecy failed, then the preterists say now that he truly came back in 70 AD, but invisible. Also, we currently know that the global flood was imposible in 2300 BCE, so christian scholars now have to say that it was local or we must take it as an allegory. Therefore, what I see is that we must allegorize everything to save the Bible.
opusdei1972
JoinedPosts by opusdei1972
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64
What christians don't want to admit
by opusdei1972 inwhen i left the wt organization, i continued to believe in the bible, so i wanted to confirm and refine, as much as possible, my faith that the true god is in the bible.
so i began to discuss with skilled christians, who were also ex-witnesses.
but i was surprised when some of them tried to relax my fundamentalist position on the literalness of the genesis account.
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64
What christians don't want to admit
by opusdei1972 inwhen i left the wt organization, i continued to believe in the bible, so i wanted to confirm and refine, as much as possible, my faith that the true god is in the bible.
so i began to discuss with skilled christians, who were also ex-witnesses.
but i was surprised when some of them tried to relax my fundamentalist position on the literalness of the genesis account.
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opusdei1972
I should not call those christians who believe that Adam and Eve existed as fundamentalist, because they are simply believing in what the Genesis account says, and in what Paul also read therefrom. Nothing else!.
This is why I insist in this: If they did not exist, the doctrine of original sin is a lie, and we die because it is our mortal nature, so we don't need Jesus.
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64
What christians don't want to admit
by opusdei1972 inwhen i left the wt organization, i continued to believe in the bible, so i wanted to confirm and refine, as much as possible, my faith that the true god is in the bible.
so i began to discuss with skilled christians, who were also ex-witnesses.
but i was surprised when some of them tried to relax my fundamentalist position on the literalness of the genesis account.
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opusdei1972
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. (John 3:18)
So, if this were true, it means that an inocent muslim, who born in "the wrong" country, will be burned in hell, at worse, or will not resurrect at best.
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64
What christians don't want to admit
by opusdei1972 inwhen i left the wt organization, i continued to believe in the bible, so i wanted to confirm and refine, as much as possible, my faith that the true god is in the bible.
so i began to discuss with skilled christians, who were also ex-witnesses.
but i was surprised when some of them tried to relax my fundamentalist position on the literalness of the genesis account.
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opusdei1972
jgnat: I think Jesus died for his beliefs and thereby inspired a world-spanning religion.
I think so, I respect Jesus because I believe he died for his beliefs, but I think his followers did not respect him when they wrote many words that he did not say.
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64
What christians don't want to admit
by opusdei1972 inwhen i left the wt organization, i continued to believe in the bible, so i wanted to confirm and refine, as much as possible, my faith that the true god is in the bible.
so i began to discuss with skilled christians, who were also ex-witnesses.
but i was surprised when some of them tried to relax my fundamentalist position on the literalness of the genesis account.
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opusdei1972
jgnat....well, Evangelicals, such as I know them here in Brazil and from webpages, believe in the inerrancy of the Bible. ...But I thought you were not a christian, due to some comments I read from you. May be I misunderstood you.
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64
What christians don't want to admit
by opusdei1972 inwhen i left the wt organization, i continued to believe in the bible, so i wanted to confirm and refine, as much as possible, my faith that the true god is in the bible.
so i began to discuss with skilled christians, who were also ex-witnesses.
but i was surprised when some of them tried to relax my fundamentalist position on the literalness of the genesis account.
-
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opusdei1972
Hi Cofty:
In your article it seems that the following is your thought (with respect to Paul):
Here again Paul makes the point that death came through Adam. In our natural state, which Paul refers to as being “in Adam”, we are all under condemnation and faced with the certainty of death.
Ok, the Watchtower agrees with you in that point also. Let us read the Catholic view. The Catholic Encyclopedia says:
Original sin is the privation of sanctifying grace in consequence of the sin of Adam. This solution, which is that of St. Thomas, goes back to St. Anselm and even to the traditions of the early Church, as we see by the declaration of the Second Council of Orange (A.D. 529): one man has transmitted to the whole human race not only the death of the body, which is the punishment of sin, but even sin itself, which is the death of the soul [Denz., n. 175 (145)]. As death is the privation of the principle of life, the death of the soul is the privation of sanctifying grace which according to all theologians is the principle of supernatural life. Therefore, if original sin is "the death of the soul", it is the privation of sanctifying grace.
Note that, by removing the soul concept, the Catholic view is just the same as the Watchtower, because without the sin of Adam, our fleshy body would not die (according to this view). So, we have to agree that Paul told us that we all die because Adam sinned. So, a baby born is already condemned "in Adam". Doesn't it ??
Well, so the if Adam did not exist, or if Adam is not the father of all men, Paul was wrong and so the Catholic Church, the Witnesses and all christianity. -
64
What christians don't want to admit
by opusdei1972 inwhen i left the wt organization, i continued to believe in the bible, so i wanted to confirm and refine, as much as possible, my faith that the true god is in the bible.
so i began to discuss with skilled christians, who were also ex-witnesses.
but i was surprised when some of them tried to relax my fundamentalist position on the literalness of the genesis account.
-
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opusdei1972
As quoted above, Cardinal George Pell says that the account of Adam and Eve is “a very sophisticated mythology to try to explain the evil and the suffering in the world". However, the early christians, the founders of Christianity ( as the first century jewish too), did not think so. Furthermore, how can the account be a myth and the original sin not?........So, it creates more contradictions in the christian theology. Cardinal Pell can currently say this, but one century ago he would be punished by the Pope. Whatever, I wonder how will they (the catholic theologians) justify this myth?
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64
What christians don't want to admit
by opusdei1972 inwhen i left the wt organization, i continued to believe in the bible, so i wanted to confirm and refine, as much as possible, my faith that the true god is in the bible.
so i began to discuss with skilled christians, who were also ex-witnesses.
but i was surprised when some of them tried to relax my fundamentalist position on the literalness of the genesis account.
-
-
opusdei1972
When I left the WT Organization, I continued to believe in the Bible, so I wanted to confirm and refine, as much as possible, my faith that the true god is in the Bible. So I began to discuss with skilled christians, who were also ex-witnesses. But I was surprised when some of them tried to relax my fundamentalist position on the literalness of the Genesis account. For instance, it was clear to me that if Adam and Eve were not two literal persons who disobeyed God, the christian doctrine that states that the human being needs a redeemer would go to the trash. But those skilled christians tried to despise my position even when I showed that Paul said that "in Adam" we all are dying. So, if Adam was not the first man who sinned , how could God punish us on account of an "allegory"?....It is clear that when Paul said that we all die "in Adam", it was because Paul believed that Adam was the first man, the father of mankind. But those christian scholars disagreed and told me that I was a fundamentalist. Ok, so I had to do my homework, and I quickly noticed that those christian scholars were right, because Adam could not be the first man, because by many evidences we now know that there were modern men more than 100 000 years ago. Also, it is imposible, not only by ADN studies, that we all descended from Noah, whose family supposedly begat us 4300 years ago.
Of course, in the past some allegorized these Bible tails (like Philo), but if you remove their historicity, you will have to admit that the fundation of the Christian doctrine will suffer a great damage. Evangelicals know that, the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses know that, and even the Catholic Church does. Althought the majority of the catholic scholars know that Adam and Eve did not exist,
http://consciouslifenews.com/catholic-cardinal-adam-eve-didnt-exist/
the Catholic Church does not admit this fact publicly. The Catholic Church, in its official writtings, insists that Adam had to exist. Why?, because the Church knows the implications. ...So, though I was wrong when I believed in Adam and Eve, I was and am right by saying that if there was no original sin, Jesus does not save us, because death was always inherent in us.
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How Has Turning Athiest/ Agnostic Affected You?
by minimus inmany jws believed in god.
now many here, do not believe in a deity.
how has this affected you in your life?.
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opusdei1972
nice video stuckinarut2
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33
How Has Turning Athiest/ Agnostic Affected You?
by minimus inmany jws believed in god.
now many here, do not believe in a deity.
how has this affected you in your life?.
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opusdei1972
I have observed something else under the sun. The fastest runner doesn't always win the race, and the strongest warrior doesn't always win the battle. The wise sometimes go hungry, and the skillful are not necessarily wealthy. And those who are educated don't always lead successful lives. It is all decided by chance, by being in the right place at the right time. (Ecclesiastes 9:11)
Althought I don't believe that the Bible was inspired by God, I admit that the above words are true due to a good experience and observation. So, no matter how much you believe in God "it is all decided by chance, by being in the right place at the right time". So, the believer and the unbeliever will die if both were unlucky and take a defective airplane. If so, do you still believe that God is concerned about you?