What christians don't want to admit

by opusdei1972 64 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  opusdei1972

  When I left the WT Organization, I continued to believe in the Bible, so I wanted to confirm and refine, as much as possible, my faith that the true god is in the Bible. So I began to discuss with skilled christians, who were also ex-witnesses. But I was surprised when some of them tried to relax my fundamentalist position on the literalness of the Genesis account. For instance, it was clear to me that if Adam and Eve were not two literal persons who disobeyed God, the christian doctrine that states that the human being needs a redeemer would go to the trash. But those skilled christians tried to despise my position even when I showed that Paul said that "in Adam" we all are dying. So, if Adam was not the first man who sinned , how could God punish us on account of an "allegory"?....It is clear that when Paul said that we all die "in Adam", it was because Paul believed that Adam was the first man, the father of mankind. But those christian scholars disagreed and told me that I was a fundamentalist. Ok, so I had to do my homework, and I quickly noticed that those christian scholars were right, because Adam could not be the first man, because by many evidences we now know that there were modern men more than 100 000 years ago. Also, it is imposible, not only by ADN studies, that we all descended from Noah, whose family supposedly begat us 4300 years ago.

  Of course, in the past some allegorized these Bible tails (like Philo), but if you remove their historicity, you will have to admit that the fundation of the Christian doctrine will suffer a great damage. Evangelicals know that, the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses know that, and even the Catholic Church does. Althought the majority of the catholic scholars know that Adam and Eve did not exist,

  http://consciouslifenews.com/catholic-cardinal-adam-eve-didnt-exist/

  the Catholic Church does not admit this fact publicly. The Catholic Church, in its official writtings, insists that Adam had to exist. Why?, because the Church knows the implications. ...So, though I was wrong when I believed in Adam and Eve, I was and am right by saying that if there was no original sin, Jesus does not save us, because death was always inherent in us.
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  prologos

  and while this (death was always inherent in us) condition existed,

  , before the snake started talking, Adam sinned, it was said "It is very good".
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  nicolaou

  Nicely reasoned. Congrats on following the evidence, wish there were more like you.
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  opusdei1972

  As quoted above, Cardinal George Pell says that the account of Adam and Eve is “a very sophisticated mythology to try to explain the evil and the suffering in the world". However, the early christians, the founders of Christianity ( as the first century jewish too), did not think so. Furthermore, how can the account be a myth and the original sin not?........So, it creates more contradictions in the christian theology. Cardinal Pell can currently say this, but one century ago he would be punished by the Pope. Whatever, I wonder how will they (the catholic theologians) justify this myth?
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  GreenhornChristian

  Well done.

  I chose to latch on to Christianity after leaving and I have come to the conclusion that it has no more to offer than the WT.

  With thy regard to Genesis, I was awakened when I was asked who created the sword God or man? I had to answer man. But it was God who placed the turning sword to block the entrance to Eden. This really got me to research Christianity and the bible critically.
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  Crazyguy

  I too after realizing the JW's were crap decided to be a more accurately believing christian. Its when studying the bible and reading things online i discover a Canaanite god named El, so I decided to read about this and then all I could about ancient religious history. Now I no longer believe the bible or any god in it. If there is a god he hasn't got anything to do with the bible.
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  kaik

  Jews do not believe in Original, Adamic sin. They figured out loooong time ago. Judaism also teaches that there is no redeemer for anyone sin. Everyone is responsible for his or her own sin.

  Story of Adam and Eve is nothing more than moral story. There was no Adam, nor Eve. Death was always present with origin of life, and every living organism will die.
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  cofty

  Christian understanding of the death of Jesus does not relate to equivelance with Adam. It is about vicarious punishment.

  The Gospel contrasted with the Watchtower doctrine of the Ransom...
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  punkofnice

  I went on a similar journey after leaving the WBT$. I became a Christian but was confused by all the inconsistancy of belief within a book reportedly from God who should surely have made everything obvious.

  I now cannot believe in God. Not because I'm bitter. Not because I deliberately reject him because I'm wicked. Not because I want to sin. I cannot believe in God because the more I looked for him the less he was there. The evidence failed to exist.
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  opusdei1972

  Hi Cofty:
  
  In your article it seems that the following is your thought (with respect to Paul):
  
  Here again Paul makes the point that death came through Adam. In our natural state, which Paul refers to as being “in Adam”, we are all under condemnation and faced with the certainty of death.
  
  Ok, the Watchtower agrees with you in that point also. Let us read the Catholic view. The Catholic Encyclopedia says:
  
  Original sin is the privation of sanctifying grace in consequence of the sin of Adam. This solution, which is that of St. Thomas, goes back to St. Anselm and even to the traditions of the early Church, as we see by the declaration of the Second Council of Orange (A.D. 529): one man has transmitted to the whole human race not only the death of the body, which is the punishment of sin, but even sin itself, which is the death of the soul [Denz., n. 175 (145)]. As death is the privation of the principle of life, the death of the soul is the privation of sanctifying grace which according to all theologians is the principle of supernatural life. Therefore, if original sin is "the death of the soul", it is the privation of sanctifying grace.
  
  
  Note that, by removing the soul concept, the Catholic view is just the same as the Watchtower, because without the sin of Adam, our fleshy body would not die (according to this view). So, we have to agree that Paul told us that we all die because Adam sinned. So, a baby born is already condemned "in Adam". Doesn't it ??
  
  Well, so the if Adam did not exist, or if Adam is not the father of all men, Paul was wrong and so the Catholic Church, the Witnesses and all christianity.