Thanks for posting that John Aquila. It all makes much more sense when seen through the prism of how an ancient people tried to explain things. But once you get into trying to marry it up with science, it all goes a bit wonky. And that's really the fundamental problem of treating the bible as a history book, as a science textbook, and, dare I say it, even a guide to morality (slavery? just saying.).
Mephis
JoinedPosts by Mephis
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Raining before the Flood?
by GrownMidget ini remember at my teen years when i was studying with a brother that he said to me that there was no rain before the flood.
instead there was this mist that you have.
never before or after this have i heard something like this.
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Report of the Trustees and Financial Statements for the Year Ended 31st August 2013 for Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Britain
by OrphanCrow indownloadable as a pdf here.. i did a search and couldn't find this posted on the forum.
if it has been and this is a repeat post....i apologize.. there is lots of information in that pdf that may be of interest to our members who like numbers and money and misc info pertaining to wts organizational structure, etc..
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Mephis
One of the things which jumps out at me every time I look at the accounts they have to file in Britain (whether local or national), is the amount of cash they have on hand and available. So they're broke? But they have £50m held at Bethel in London. Cash. The local circuit assembly hall to me has £300k in cash in its own bank account. The problem is how they're spending it, not on the amount they're getting, I'd suggest. Unless something huge has happened in the US differing to Britain, and I know there's some reliable people saying donations have absolutely tanked there, it just looks like stagnant donation levels (or even falling ones) colliding with grandiose expansion plans. The £9m write off of debts from congos in Britain is a decent wedge of money, but they've also pulled £12m out of the accounts they've held in trust, so they're in profit... -
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Report of the Trustees and Financial Statements for the Year Ended 31st August 2013 for Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Britain
by OrphanCrow indownloadable as a pdf here.. i did a search and couldn't find this posted on the forum.
if it has been and this is a repeat post....i apologize.. there is lots of information in that pdf that may be of interest to our members who like numbers and money and misc info pertaining to wts organizational structure, etc..
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Mephis
Their income from donations dropped from £22m to £17m over the course of a year.
There's actually more recent accounts (for 2014): http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends61/0001077961_AC_20140831_E_C.pdf
Those one shows a massive increase in donations of cash and goods taking them to £35m (double the previous year). A huge chunk of that may be the drop in money held by the branch on behalf of local congos from £39m to £27m.
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63
Raining before the Flood?
by GrownMidget ini remember at my teen years when i was studying with a brother that he said to me that there was no rain before the flood.
instead there was this mist that you have.
never before or after this have i heard something like this.
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Mephis
Imagine what the atmospheric pressure would be like with all that water in the atmosphere. Actually don't imagine, find some footage of what's needed to work in that kind of pressure when humans explore places like the Marianas Trench. I guess Noah may have been thickskinned... very thickskinned... and titanium boned or whatever... Genesis and science don't play well together, who knew?
And that was cruel posting the song St.George. Going to have to bleach my mind now as the tune to it popped out when I started to read the words. Urgh.
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new letter about cuts london
by rege brazzy in.
2015-10-29_boe-making_the_best_use_of_dedicated_funds.pdf source jwleaks.
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Mephis
Dear Brothers:
As you know, a number of adjustments are being made in order to make the best use of dedicated funds. At this time, we would like to make you aware of some of these adjustments.
The Governing Body has directed that a number of branch and Assembly Hall construction projects be delayed, reduced in scope, or in some cases, cancelled. In the case of our branch relocation project in Chelmsford, this will still go ahead although it will be reduced in scope. However, Kingdom Halls will continue to be built or renovated in proportion to whatever the brothers are able to contribute for this purpose. In addition, all branches have been asked to reduce the size of their Bethel family.
Support for special pioneers and temporary special pioneers will continue in developing lands. However, in more affluent countries, where a large number of regular pioneers are zealously engaged in the preaching work, the number of temporary special pioneers will be reduced significantly. There will also be some reduction in the number of special pioneers. We feel sure that many regular pioneers will be willing to move to the areas where temporary special pioneers were formerly assigned so that the Kingdom work will continue unabated. And no doubt some who were previously serving as temporary special pioneers will be willing to continue in their assignments as regular pioneers. It is a source of great encouragement to see that, during September, there were 13,148 regular pioneers in Britain, which is a new all-time peak. In Ireland there were 791 regular pioneers.
Please be assured that these adjustments are not being made because of a lack of financial support on your part. Far from it! You have been very generous in your support of the Kingdom work. And in your letters and cards you show a high level of spirituality and great appreciation for all that Jehovah is doing on behalf of his organization. The response to jw.org, public witnessing, JW Broadcasting, and the expanded use of videos at the conventions this year has been simply overwhelming!
However, it must be acknowledged that the Kingdom work is expanding at an accelerated pace and the Governing Body can only do so much with the funds at their disposal. Every family head realizes that where the household income is limited, he must carefully budget available funds so that his wife and children will have the necessities of life. At Philippians 1:10 we are told to “make sure of the more important things.” In harmony with this wise advice, the Governing Body desires to give priority to those activities that contribute the most to the spiritual welfare of God’s people and the advancement of the global preaching work.
Consider, for example, the announcement at the Annual Meeting that beginning in January our public magazines will be published bimonthly. There is no question that an abundance of spiritual food has been produced—so much, in fact, that many have found it difficult to keep up. This adjustment will not only allow available funds to be used effectively; it will help us to keep up with our spiritual provisions.
Re: Making the Best Use of Dedicated Funds
October 29, 2015 Page 2
We will be reducing personnel at Bethel. Some Bethel family members will be invited to serve in the field. In addition to their regular work, Bethel family members will be caring for many of the services that were previously provided by fellow Bethelites. The response of the Bethel family to these adjustments has been heartwarming! Please make all of these adjustments a matter of prayer.
Much of this information was presented in an announcement at the Annual Meeting. We encourage all to view this programme at the earliest opportunity. It is available on JW Broadcasting at tv.jw.org.
May Jehovah continue to bless each one of you for the love you show for his name.
Your brothers,
Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses
PS to coordinator of the body of elders: Please arrange for this letter to be read at the first Service Meeting following receipt
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Judge questions whether confession privilege should extend to Jehovah's Witnesses
by GodZoo ina us judge is considering whether it is constitutional to have a law that protects the clergy of just one religious denomination from disclosing what is said to them in confession.
(including what's said in judicial confessions by peodophiles.
)http://www.christiantoday.com/article/judge.questions.whether.confession.privilege.should.extend.to.jehovahs.witnesses/70169.htm
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Mephis
Not sure what point you're trying to make to me OC. But, no, I don't believe Applewhite's testimony was influenced by internet concerns over the Catholic confessional, if that's what you're suggesting. -
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Judge questions whether confession privilege should extend to Jehovah's Witnesses
by GodZoo ina us judge is considering whether it is constitutional to have a law that protects the clergy of just one religious denomination from disclosing what is said to them in confession.
(including what's said in judicial confessions by peodophiles.
)http://www.christiantoday.com/article/judge.questions.whether.confession.privilege.should.extend.to.jehovahs.witnesses/70169.htm
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Mephis
There's a distinction there I think OC. Catholic confession is to the priest and stays with the priest. A JW judicial committee, as others have already pointed out, involves three elders plus more elders plus any other elders in other congos who are told, plus the CO, plus the branch. And then whoever in future years then gets access to the files. It's less a confession and more an announcement to an audience of unspecified number. But that number doesn't include the authorities who can protect a child and serve justice on an abuser.
Applewhite's reasons were her own, but I'd suspect that it was easy money for not a lot of work. She was carrying out a literature review and then testifying on it.
It shouldn't really impact upon Catholics, although there's some interesting discussions within other churches with sacramental confessions on when a priest will refuse to keep it to him (or her) self. The formulation often used is 'some things you tell me may not be things I can keep to myself'.
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Our assembly expenses were $16,900 for ONE DAY - Please share yours
by nmthinker in~2300 in attendance.
one day cost of $16,900!.
this was at romeoville, which was built ground up in the 90's and was fully paid for by the illinois circuits!.
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Mephis
The cost charged to accounts for Manchester Assembly Hall (Northenden, a listed building and former art deco cinema) for an entire year were £99,629. This excludes a cost of £48,381 for 'refurbishing' the building. Income for the year? £190,141.
If anyone was sat there last year (2014) and told there was a deficit, well, you can do the addition and subtraction.There's a reason the circuit has £289,000 sat in its bank account...
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Judge questions whether confession privilege should extend to Jehovah's Witnesses
by GodZoo ina us judge is considering whether it is constitutional to have a law that protects the clergy of just one religious denomination from disclosing what is said to them in confession.
(including what's said in judicial confessions by peodophiles.
)http://www.christiantoday.com/article/judge.questions.whether.confession.privilege.should.extend.to.jehovahs.witnesses/70169.htm
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Mephis
Aussie Royal Commission dismantled the nonsensical idea that JW judicial committees are in any way like Catholic confessions. Going to be interesting to see what this judge decides, and her question there already indicates which way she's currently leaning short of some mighty fast explaining. They'll fight this one tooth and nail, they have to or the whole sham of 'confessional privilege' to avoid reporting collapses in every common law country.
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JWs have more good points than bad
by lsw1961 in1) many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic).
2) equal monthly pay to all members of the bethel community regardless of whether they are bc members or sweepers.
this is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.
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Mephis
Carefully read the OP. A little confusing to be honest. The conclusion doesn't match the points being argued.
1.) I guess we could really use some definition of 'destructive'. Personally I don't find atheism registers on that scale. But, agree, if something helps someone to manage an addiction, brilliant. There isn't just one way to do this however.
2.) The Bethel allowance really isn't something to brag about. Does it meet minimum wage levels for the area? Does it meet living wage levels for the area? If the answer is no, equality in poor financial renumeration isn't a good thing! It's certainly not an answer to the world's problems (for reference, vulgar communism).
3.) I've always found JWs reliant on set phrases, pre-learned sentences and unable to engage in meaningful conversation on religious subjects. Some of that carries over into their personal conversations too. Watching the governing body give speeches highlights the huge problems with the JW method of teaching public speaking. To contrast, watch some of the best TED talks.
4.) JWs have often been canary in the mine on religious freedom issues, agree with that. At the same time, there's a lot of history there in how they've compromised, and pandered, with authoritarian regimes. Would highlight too that it's a very American view of religious freedoms which they promote and they fairly regularly have to have explained to them that other countries have different laws, especially when there's conflict between a public good and freedom to be a religious asshat.
5.) Being against evolution and for Arianism? Really? That's a good point? Your understanding of what constitutes a scientific theory is rather flawed. Perhaps something to research for yourself. Arianism is not new. Kind of unfashionable true enough, but then one does need to play with biblical interpretation to get there. None of this makes people responsible citizens though. Your point here is kind of logically incoherent I'm afraid - causes and effects are all sorts of confused. If your argument is that lots of people around the world believe the same things, yeah, that's a fair point. But that's one of the curious things about religions, people who don't share the belief leave, and those who remain get the religion to themselves. Not sure what it proves? JWs aren't unique in having shared dogma.
Curious really. Hope the OP has the time to explore some of the ideas which can be found on this forum. Perhaps weigh up whether a symbol can ever be more important than what is symbolised, whether allowing others to dictate one's interpretation of language (and then behaviour) should ever be a good thing, whether constantly getting things wrong but never owning to them is really a model to be encouraged etc etc. If the general point is that many JWs are nice, even good people, absolutely. I'll agree. But that doesn't stop them doing pretty terrible things in the name of their 'good'. Banality of evil as many clever people have commented upon since the Enlightenment.