Posts by Mephis

3

...and other Animals 2

by Lostandfound in

as well as most congs having a number of bro no works there were generally some outspoken ones who at the hint of an issue or problem demanded to know "what are we going to do about this..." bro hard nose, who generally wanted to have firing squads set up or a talk from the platform but surprisingly they were never going to do anything, just get other elders to take on more work.. bro no work and bro hard nose seemed to have taken a course in criticism as that was their speciality why is this happening, who is sorting this out, when will this be done, all questions that indicate an interest but not enough to do anything.. eventually with one bro hard now who had demanded to now at an elders meeting what was going to happen to a family who "harboured" a disfellowshiped daughter, i cracked and asked him, what are you going to do, because i bet it is the same as me, nothing, i respect the parents for having the moral and physical care of their daughter in mind".

one circuit visit was from paul presland, a kind enough brother who had a severe limp.

my son almost had to be chained down as he followed the co and mimicked his limping.

Mephis

I remember the switch with the literature, and seem to recall the letter being read which was a load of fluff about new 'better' arrangement. Lot of the subtext went straight over my head.

Vaguely remember the trays, plastic ones I remember, although we took packed lunches, and the little token slips were for chocolate and pastries and drinks for us. Nice little scam they ran with those tokens - cheaper to pop to the local shops!

Never saw Red Dwarf until it shifted to a Tuesday night! Now you say about Lett... yes!

3

...and other Animals 2

by Lostandfound in

as well as most congs having a number of bro no works there were generally some outspoken ones who at the hint of an issue or problem demanded to know "what are we going to do about this..." bro hard nose, who generally wanted to have firing squads set up or a talk from the platform but surprisingly they were never going to do anything, just get other elders to take on more work.. bro no work and bro hard nose seemed to have taken a course in criticism as that was their speciality why is this happening, who is sorting this out, when will this be done, all questions that indicate an interest but not enough to do anything.. eventually with one bro hard now who had demanded to now at an elders meeting what was going to happen to a family who "harboured" a disfellowshiped daughter, i cracked and asked him, what are you going to do, because i bet it is the same as me, nothing, i respect the parents for having the moral and physical care of their daughter in mind".

one circuit visit was from paul presland, a kind enough brother who had a severe limp.

my son almost had to be chained down as he followed the co and mimicked his limping.

Mephis

I remember Paul Presland. Or at least the name. Your right about the trustee/elder problem. Think there's been at least two investigations by the Charity Commission into congregations where the problem was identified. Not that anything has been done to sort it out. Elders phoning the charity commission to report allegations of child abuse? They don't even phone the police...

Did your circuit ever sell the homemade cakes at assemblies? Best cakes ever. Some people could bake! Some couldn't mind... Didn't realise it was VAT behind the stopping of all food? I know the homemade cakes stopped when Mill Hill figured out they'd be on the line if someone got food poisoning or whatever from a cake. Seem to recall them saying that it had become a 'distraction' to the assembly too. Not allowed nice things and fun.

Look forward to more!

46

Evolution a Fact - Agreed but So What?

by LAWHFol in

in many debates between believers and non believers (nb), the nb uses evolution as some sort of proof to support the non existence of god.. i agree that evolution is a fact, however i feel that evolution is proof of some sort of benevolent original cause.. if i were to create an a.i.

, i would program into it the ability to self-refactor and evolve.. i would also randomly inject viruses into the program (evil) where the a.i.

would be forced to stretch its current capabilities & modify it's operating functions in order to get through the random virus, and continue living.. with a steady flow of different viruses, the a.i.

Mephis

Ask evolutionists how in about 50,000 years humans seemingly evolved more than the previous 50,000,000 years of normal evolution.

This seems to be popping up a bit recently. Honest question here, where do you get the idea that this is unexplained WireRider? And why the 50,000 years date? Are you going on the idea proposed by Klein in the late 80s, which is really widely discredited now, that there was a sudden revolution? Can provide the pdf essays refuting his theory if you want?

49

"If I wasn't born a JW, I would never have become one."

by OneEyedJoe in

i've seen it mentioned by a few on the forum that at some point there was a realization that had they not been born a jw, they never would've converted no matter how many times the jws tried to study with them.

this was my experience too, and i'm wondering how universal it is for those that were born-in but eventually left.

i think i started having this thought (more specifically that if i were not born a jw, i would surely have become an atheist by now) in my late teens.

Mephis

I was in my pre-teens when I realised that this was something my parents did, not something I believed in. The 'personal relationship with Jehovah' idea rings a bell - I'd no idea what it was. Still don't really understand it. Does he talk back? I asked really honestly and was listening hard for a reply. But, yeah, not something which happened for me.

Was always a bit geekish and bookish though, and I was reading stuff which was dismantling the whole Abrahamic religion belief set through the historical evidence really. Would have been an even quicker process if the internet had existed - having to chase down the sources via interlibrary loan was a slow process! Wouldn't have really resolved the problem of being a minor stuck inside. Possibly would have given a better twist to how I did end up leaving, at least in terms of dealing with things afterwards.

Know that feeling described in the OP very well. Everything had to be questioned and tested again. Even more recently, it's been the past couple of years where I've properly dealt with some lingering niggles which were still there. I found it very disorientating as a late teen, especially with the shunning thing going on and coming out of a very sheltered life. Still find the whole thing rather curious and difficult to explain at times. Is what it is.

14

Conversation with a Biblical scholar - Richard Dawkins

by CookieMonster in

quite interesting when you look at the bible objectively and the historical records.

it highlights the problems of using the bible as authoritative and validation of history.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxcutg0lvr0.

spoiler: didn't know that the immanuel prophecy attributed to jesus as being born from a virgin is actually a mistranslation.

Mephis

doublepost.

14

Conversation with a Biblical scholar - Richard Dawkins

by CookieMonster in

quite interesting when you look at the bible objectively and the historical records.

it highlights the problems of using the bible as authoritative and validation of history.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxcutg0lvr0.

spoiler: didn't know that the immanuel prophecy attributed to jesus as being born from a virgin is actually a mistranslation.

Mephis

Hi Kepler,

Yeah, the evidence for a temple of Solomon is limited to the tradition rather than the archaeology. There have been some recent excavations at a site outside the original walls from the city which may correspond with a description of a royal palace being in a place which fits the biblical account, and that would then help further buttress the location of the temple. Mazar was the archaeologist, was billed as 'David's Palace', but it's worth reading Finkelstein's rebuttal too - he holds a very 'minimalist' position and I always find him a useful guide on how far things can be interpreted without reference to the bible. Mazar in particular has had a couple of digs where the dating seems shoehorned to fit the bible.

General point though is that even, say, Finkelstein accept that something was happening in the hills. His suggestion remains that the 40 years of David/Solomon isn't actual time so we're very much in the stuff of legends. Even if they could dig on temple mount, I suspect the remains of any pre-exilic temple would be at best some re-used masonry. If that. Don't think there's any reason to fully doubt the existence of a cult sanctuary (of some type) there though?

46

Starlight in a Young Universe

by Perry in

the scientific method begins with a faith statement called a hypothesis, and then goes on to look for evidence, for or against support of the faith statement.. secular materialists often change their ideas on exactly how things have made themselves, but never whether they did.. the manifesto for this self imposed mental ban seems to be summed up by geneticist richard lewontin:.

‘our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural.

we take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism.. it is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated.

Mephis

There is only a "controversy" with those that won't accept facts. The existence of young dinosaur soft tissue, blood cells, DNA etc. is well documented.

The dimwit who wrote that article somehow has managed to confuse 10,000 years and 1.5 million years. The article in Nature covering the study is here: http://www.nature.com/news/dna-has-a-521-year-half-life-1.11555

If a creationist needs to lie (and yes, that is a lie) about something as simple as a scientific paper he's quoting then it's pretty clear that the discussion is not a scientific one. The dinosaur DNA idea is widely disputed - I know, socially, people who work with remains much more recent than that and who are at the cutting edge of the field. We're only just about able to pull out Denisovan and Neanderthal DNA from a couple of hundred thousand years ago. So there's no controversy about something which hasn't passed peer review studies. Collagen and red blood cells, if not contamination, then that's still being kicked about to see if it stands up.

Science isn't a religion. You disprove a major theory, you get tenure and a Nobel prize and your name goes into history. You disprove a religion's foundational beliefs and all the believers get upset and start looking for pitchforks and torches.

21

This idiot just embarrasses me.

by joe134cd in

yup a mentally diseased apostate.. http://youtu.be/e7qmypu7mxo.

Mephis

Has anyone here been 'woken up' by direct activism like that guy does? I know that sort of thing didn't have any part to play in me coming out, if anything it just cemented in a stereotype of apostates even many years after I'd left. But I wonder if there are those who it does work for?

67

Is proselytizing less condescending when evolutionists do it?

by paul from cleveland in

is it just me?

Mephis

No amount of copy and paste about our DNA or common ancestor and whatever which change the fact in a relatively short period of time or milli-second in evolutionary terms can explain who one species went from cave paintings to putting a man on the moon.

In fairness, that's a history question rather than a biology one once the fundamentals of speech and toolmaking are in place.

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Mephis

Sounds like an excuse to me, I still say either believe all the Bible or non of it.
At least the JWs are the only ones who believe all of it.
Others say they do, but when it comes to men laying with men, or the blood issue, then that is what sorts the true religion from the false.

All the bible. Ok. Here's Jehovah (Yahweh) in action. This is the true religion, right?

The morality of the divine patron can seem very foreign to modern sensibilities. For example, since ancient Near Eastern society was patriarchal, treating women as subordinate to men, it follows logically that the divine patron also treated women this way. A biblical example illustrates the point. In 2 Samuel 11–12, King David covets another man’s wife, takes her, and later kills the husband when the woman becomes pregnant. According to the story, the patron god, Yahweh, is angry, but not because David has raped and murdered. Yahweh expresses disgust that David has taken the wrong man’s wife, for he, Yahweh, is eager to give David the wives of other men if David desires them (12:7b–8). As punishment for David’s sin, the woman’s child shall die and another man shall rape several of David’s other wives (12:9–14). The moral values of Canaanite culture are clearly on display in this tale: the divine patron punishes a man by killing a child and orchestrating the rape of other women. The divine patron protects the property of males by violating or destroying the property of other males. Religious morality is a by-product of social prejudices.

Kurt Noll. http://people.brandonu.ca/nollk/canaanite-religion/

Don't give blood to save someone's life, because that makes him sad and he'll kill you. Only rape the right women (!!!), or he'll be sad and have your wives raped and kill children. That's the god JWs want to worship. Forgive me for not giving a damn what he says about consensual sex between adults.