Posts by Mephis

32

What are the biggest holes in the ransom sacrifice?

by Half banana in

how honest are the proponents of jesus as the ransom sacrifice?.

curious to see what type of response there is on a topic like this or does their study only seek to confirm their preconceptions and ignore uncomfortable facts?.

Mephis

Think it was Origen who first specifically proposed it early in the 3rd century. It's made absolutely no sense in 1800 years since. Why is God forced to follow a system of blood sacrifices? Who designed the cosmic scales of justice which he has to make sure are in balance? I asked these questions as a kid and it ended up being turtles all the way down until I figured that asking questions was pointless.

"Because the angels are watching."

"But God made the angels, they do what they're told or they join Satan."

"Because it's justice."

"But it doesn't seem fair. Why couldn't he have used Job?"

"Because he's God and you can't understand it."

26

Charles Darwin was not an Atheist

by LAWHFol in

personally i have the same viewpoint of darwin, when he said : " the safest conclusion seems to me to be that the whole subject is beyond the scope of man's intellect".

i'm not trying to convince anyone about the existence or non existence of god.. rather, i encourage everyone to keep seeking.

keep searching for the truth that makes the most sense to them.. darwin is the grand father of evolution, and his findings and life work, did not make of him an atheist.

Mephis

I quite like how Darwin approached it. "Here's the evidence for evolution. What you do with it theologically, that's your business."

For me history was what meant I didn't buy into JW fantasies. You cannot do a serious study of history without it knocking over key tenets of JW doctrine. For others it seems like science has the same effect. You don't necessarily need to replace one thing with another. One of the things I really learned coming out was that black/white thinking just doesn't really help with a lot of things. It's ok to say 'I don't know', in fact the 'don't know' pushes me to want to learn more. And that's fine I think. I'm not looking to replace God with Evolution. God is faith, evolution is knowledge. I may as well argue for a historical Achilles based on nothing but my faith in it being so. It doesn't change the results of the excavations of Troy.

Obviously evolution causes major problems if you believe that Genesis is a literal account of how humans came to be. But then any number of other disciplines and lines of evidence will present problems for you too. If you want to ban all of them from being discussed because they challenge your faith, then maybe it's the faith which is causing the problem.

8

The Evolution of Humans

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

tracing the evolutionary path of humans is complicated.

simply because human and proto-human remains (including bones) are perishable.

remains from the distant past are usually only preserved when some unique features exist that assist preservation.

Mephis

Just away from Nature itself, a few other places which give you the ability to go to sources directly if you want to research something for yourself.

JSTOR offers limited access to papers with a free account, for those without access to a decent library. It's only 3 articles every fortnight however. But better than a kick to the nether regions and it covers a crazy amount of academic journals.

http://about.jstor.org/rr

Plosone is becoming very fashionable to use. Open access, peer reviewed papers. The homo naledi papers were put up there, which caused quite a stir as usually one would expect it to take a few years from discovery to publication in a traditional journal.

http://www.plosone.org/

Academia.edu has a huge number of essays and articles put up by individual academics wanting to do open access. You may want to just create an account (free) to be able to browse through. Much goodness contained whether you're into science things or the humanities.

https://www.academia.edu/

133

What are the biggest holes in evolution?

by shadow in

how honest are the proponents of evolution?

idk but curious to see what type of response there is on a topic like this or does their study only seek to confirm their preconceptions and ignore uncomfortable facts?

Mephis

I'd like to know which uncomfortable facts? It doesn't explain the initial origin of life (abiogenesis) and there are plenty of areas which touch on evolution where further knowledge is needed. A lot of our medicines for the future will stem from being able to use evolutionary theory in better ways - whether that's in how diseases change over time and so tailor drugs to work or in how to treat things which arise from our own genetic code. A post-antibiotic world is perhaps the most uncomfortable one imaginable if work in evolutionary theory doesn't keep pace.

16

Do People Have Spirits? What Do the Early Texts Say?

by Cold Steel in

for years adventist sects, including the jws, have believed that the dead sleep at death and remain non-existent until the resurrection.

its strongest argument seems to be text in the non-escchatological book of ecclesiastes in the old testament.

although a part of the canon of scripture, the book is not written by a prophet, nor is there any prophecy or recognizable doctrine contained therein.

Mephis

You'd likely need something which predates Alexander the Great/the Ptolemies/the Seleucids to really make the point that Greek thought hadn't influenced elements of Judaism. Add another 100 years to pre-date Plato to really mark it out. Apocalypse of Abraham is nearly 400 years after Hellenistic empires controlled Palestine, so ample time for Greek ideas on the soul to have influenced things.

JW doctrine is a confused mess, but then so was early christianity's! In that at least they're copying it well.

4

Thoughts on the Source of a WT Quote?

by berrygerry in

so, i posted this thread:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5743929701957632/this-fair-description-jehovahs-witness-religion-encourages-strife-numbs-human-conscience-fills-brain.

on another forum, and as well posted it here primarily to ask a question.. an astute redditor went to the beginning of the 2004 article - .

Mephis

Colin Morris wrote a book of that title to accompany a BBC series. He was a methodist minister and missionary.

http://www.amazon.com/Start-Your-Religion-Colin-Morris/dp/0563364653

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Morris_(Methodist_minister)

12

Evolution is a Fact #9 - Less Chewing More Thinking

by cofty in

if you put your fingers on the side of your head, just above your ears, and move your jaw you will be able to feel your temporalis muscles doing their thing.. compared to our primate cousins our temporalis muscles are puny - approximately one eighth the size.

the reason for the difference is a mutation of the myh16 gene in humans that produces a protein called myosin heavy chain 16. in primates like the gorilla this protein produces the powerful chewing pressure of the jaw.. our closest hominid relative, the chimpanzee have an intact myh16 gene.

since the rate of mutation can be determined, hansell stedman and his team at the university of pennsylvania have calculated that the mutation that disabled the gene in our line happened between 2.1 and 2.7 million years ago.. the large temporalis muscle has to anchor to very thick and strong skull bones.

Mephis

Just on mutation rate, an article in Nature with links to papers which set out the nitty gritty: http://www.nature.com/news/dna-mutation-clock-proves-tough-to-set-1.17079

tl:dr of it - currently they're comparing the entire genomes of things to work out a rough estimation of the rate, but the rate may at times be faster and may at times be slower so dating will be an estimation within a band based on slowest known rate and faster ones.

14

Volunteer workers pushed to renounce to their social rights

by sp74bb in

jw
friends

surprisingly in spain, a large quantity of bethel volunteers (nice to words to say workers) have received their letter telling they are not anymore required.

in this country, government obliged bethel to give social rights such as basic social security (doctors, etc..) to the volunteers as they understand that it is a business relationship.. all of them have been pushed to sign a letter stating they renounce to their work and then go outside bethel with not a single right (unemployment, etc...).

it is really unfortunately but silly from bethel office to arrange it this way.

Mephis

They did this before in Spain, didn't they? When they closed down printing there?

They're a disgrace of a printing company. They want all the benefits wider society provide but refuse to acknowledge any social responsibility themselves.

Hope the letter gets leaked. Hope it wakes up a few too.

3

...and other Animals 2

by Lostandfound in

as well as most congs having a number of bro no works there were generally some outspoken ones who at the hint of an issue or problem demanded to know "what are we going to do about this..." bro hard nose, who generally wanted to have firing squads set up or a talk from the platform but surprisingly they were never going to do anything, just get other elders to take on more work.. bro no work and bro hard nose seemed to have taken a course in criticism as that was their speciality why is this happening, who is sorting this out, when will this be done, all questions that indicate an interest but not enough to do anything.. eventually with one bro hard now who had demanded to now at an elders meeting what was going to happen to a family who "harboured" a disfellowshiped daughter, i cracked and asked him, what are you going to do, because i bet it is the same as me, nothing, i respect the parents for having the moral and physical care of their daughter in mind".

one circuit visit was from paul presland, a kind enough brother who had a severe limp.

my son almost had to be chained down as he followed the co and mimicked his limping.

Mephis

I remember the switch with the literature, and seem to recall the letter being read which was a load of fluff about new 'better' arrangement. Lot of the subtext went straight over my head.

Vaguely remember the trays, plastic ones I remember, although we took packed lunches, and the little token slips were for chocolate and pastries and drinks for us. Nice little scam they ran with those tokens - cheaper to pop to the local shops!

Never saw Red Dwarf until it shifted to a Tuesday night! Now you say about Lett... yes!

3

...and other Animals 2

by Lostandfound in

as well as most congs having a number of bro no works there were generally some outspoken ones who at the hint of an issue or problem demanded to know "what are we going to do about this..." bro hard nose, who generally wanted to have firing squads set up or a talk from the platform but surprisingly they were never going to do anything, just get other elders to take on more work.. bro no work and bro hard nose seemed to have taken a course in criticism as that was their speciality why is this happening, who is sorting this out, when will this be done, all questions that indicate an interest but not enough to do anything.. eventually with one bro hard now who had demanded to now at an elders meeting what was going to happen to a family who "harboured" a disfellowshiped daughter, i cracked and asked him, what are you going to do, because i bet it is the same as me, nothing, i respect the parents for having the moral and physical care of their daughter in mind".

one circuit visit was from paul presland, a kind enough brother who had a severe limp.

my son almost had to be chained down as he followed the co and mimicked his limping.

Mephis

I remember Paul Presland. Or at least the name. Your right about the trustee/elder problem. Think there's been at least two investigations by the Charity Commission into congregations where the problem was identified. Not that anything has been done to sort it out. Elders phoning the charity commission to report allegations of child abuse? They don't even phone the police...

Did your circuit ever sell the homemade cakes at assemblies? Best cakes ever. Some people could bake! Some couldn't mind... Didn't realise it was VAT behind the stopping of all food? I know the homemade cakes stopped when Mill Hill figured out they'd be on the line if someone got food poisoning or whatever from a cake. Seem to recall them saying that it had become a 'distraction' to the assembly too. Not allowed nice things and fun.

Look forward to more!