One idea which has been suggested, and seems to have held up to scrutiny, is that Song of Solomon is remarkably similar to Egyptian love poetry of c.1200 BCE. Coincidence I'm sure, ahem.
Looks like a fascinating exhibition.
Mephis
JoinedPosts by Mephis
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Why is the Bible silent about the real Israel/Egyptian connections?
by fulltimestudent inthe bible does connect egypt and israel (including judah), but does not tell the truth about the connection.. an exhibition at the israel museum tells a clearer story.. it tells of two periods of connection;.
the first connection around 1800 to 1550 bce when canaanites settled in the eastern section of the nile river delta.
it seems this is the era that saw the development of stories like the joseph story and the mose's story.
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Louisiana Judge Rules That Priests Don’t Have to Report Abuse if They Hear It During Confession
by ttdtt inleave it to the deep south.. sad.. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/03/01/louisiana-judge-rules-that-priests-dont-have-to-report-abuse-if-they-hear-it-during-confession/?utm_source=silverpopmailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=friendlyatheist_030116utc050309_daily&utm_content=&spmailingid=50816439&spuserid=mty4mdi2oty3odkws0&spjobid=880120009&spreportid=odgwmtiwmda5s0.
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Mephis
Hi Jan. I know some Anglican vicars also use a formula to establish limits too. I know I used a similar formula as a teacher when asked by a child, "can you keep a secret?" or something like that. Clergy/penitent privilege is confidentiality in common law (outside the US anyways..), and sometimes confidentiality isn't the most important thing.
It is complex as you say, and reporting laws are blunt tools which represent a failure of adults to protect children for too long and in too many cases. You're right, there's not going to be a perfect solution. No-one wants to drag a survivor through a legal process, at the same time how does one also ensure they are safe from further abuse and other children are not at risk? There is more leeway with adult survivors for that to be a matter for the survivor, but for children and vulnerable adults then there may only be that one opportunity and there may not be a responsible adult able to act otherwise.
I know some believers will strongly disagree, but I personally don't feel an offender's ability to confess counts for much if children are still at risk. Sadly, if spiritual support on its own worked well for pedophiles, we wouldn't be dealing with so many cases within religions. This may be a case where secular society will have to cut the Gordian knot on this for religions. It will be interesting to see what recommendations come out of the Australian Commission and the Goddard Inquiry for how best to deal with this.
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Louisiana Judge Rules That Priests Don’t Have to Report Abuse if They Hear It During Confession
by ttdtt inleave it to the deep south.. sad.. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/03/01/louisiana-judge-rules-that-priests-dont-have-to-report-abuse-if-they-hear-it-during-confession/?utm_source=silverpopmailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=friendlyatheist_030116utc050309_daily&utm_content=&spmailingid=50816439&spuserid=mty4mdi2oty3odkws0&spjobid=880120009&spreportid=odgwmtiwmda5s0.
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Mephis
There's a difference between a confession and a child reporting rape though. And what's currently happening is children reporting being raped or sexually assaulted are being treated as giving a confession by some religions in order to claim an exemption from reporting. That's clearly all shades of wrong.
In the UK, there is no clergy/penitent privilege recognised as a right. People still go to confession. Judges are granted discretion on deciding whether or not such evidence should be called. Most churches with a trained clergy have procedures to warn people that there may be circumstances where a conversation may not be kept confidential if they work in jurisdictions where this can happen. Even JWs in some countries have been warned by letter from the platform that elders may be required to disclose some information to secular authorities.
Really, there should be no excuse for an adult in a position of authority not to report abuse of a child or a vulnerable adult (legally defined as needing assistance to safeguard themselves) to safeguarding authorities. It really shouldn't be difficult to find systems and procedures to do that.
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Louisiana Judge Rules That Priests Don’t Have to Report Abuse if They Hear It During Confession
by ttdtt inleave it to the deep south.. sad.. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/03/01/louisiana-judge-rules-that-priests-dont-have-to-report-abuse-if-they-hear-it-during-confession/?utm_source=silverpopmailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=friendlyatheist_030116utc050309_daily&utm_content=&spmailingid=50816439&spuserid=mty4mdi2oty3odkws0&spjobid=880120009&spreportid=odgwmtiwmda5s0.
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Mephis
It really depends on the specific laws Smiddy and where you're talking about.
General answer to your last question though is that (in common law democracies) any relevant law/s will be interpreted as applying to all religions. So a lack of a 'formal' clergy isn't a barrier to invoking the privilege where it is recognised. How it gets applied is another thing altogether and depends on precise wording of the law/s.
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Louisiana Judge Rules That Priests Don’t Have to Report Abuse if They Hear It During Confession
by ttdtt inleave it to the deep south.. sad.. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/03/01/louisiana-judge-rules-that-priests-dont-have-to-report-abuse-if-they-hear-it-during-confession/?utm_source=silverpopmailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=friendlyatheist_030116utc050309_daily&utm_content=&spmailingid=50816439&spuserid=mty4mdi2oty3odkws0&spjobid=880120009&spreportid=odgwmtiwmda5s0.
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Mephis
This will bounce straight back up to a higher court (again). The priest has been granted freedom to testify on the conversation by the penitent herself, he shouldn't complain if he is found in contempt of court. (eg as happened to a Catholic priest who refused to testify when given permission by another penitent in this Massachusetts case from 30 years ago: http://masscases.com/cases/sjc/388/388mass128.html )
Feel for the survivor seeing the court case drag on so long.
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The JW Spin - why governments and opposers should let jws handle abusers themselves
by Robo Bobo ini came across this blog - it is one of the evilest things i've ever read.. http://dismythed.blogspot.com/2016/02/flip-side-news-opposers-want-ex.html.
you might not want to click on it because a) you'll give it more traffic and b) it will make you mad.
in summary it states that since only 11-17% of molesters are repeat offenders, witnesses guilty of abuse should be dealt with inside the congregation as long as they confess.
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Mephis
The bible sure is inconvenient when arguing that pedophiles should be protected from secular authorities because 'religion'. 1 Peter 2 (NWT).
13 For the Lord’s sake subject yourselves to every human creation, whether to a king as being superior 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish wrongdoers but to praise those who do good.15 For it is the will of God that by doing good you may silence the ignorant talk of unreasonable men.
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Do the GB want the JW religion to fail?
by Grey Goose inbasically what the thread title says.. do you guys think the gb want the jw religion to fail?
of course failing in the ultimate sense is just not going to happen.
no matter how bankrupt they went, there is always going to be a percentage that holds on.. but downsizing the membership?
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Mephis
Think it's more the byproduct of delusion than a cunning plan. They currently seem to be in the process of trying to redo Rutherford's big ideas on how to apply bible prophesy. I wonder how many still inside and believing would even be aware of what the changes mean beyond 'new light' and swallowing everything whole. My money is on them declaring Armageddon as having started in some way. Book of Revelation is due a reinterpretation from all the Rutherford-era events.
"And the first trumpet was obviously the historic opening of JW.org website. And the second trumpet was the history making first television broadcast on it."
That kind of babbling buffoonery to keep everyone involved with thinking the end is even nigh-er than before again.
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This thread is for proof that God exists
by juandefiero inhowever, i haven't found any evidence to support that belief.. have you?
if so please, show me the evidence that god exists, and i will believe along with you.. criteria:.
(1) you must specify which god you are talking about;.
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Mephis
The majority of U.S. scientists either belive in a diety or in a higher power.
Or you can phrase it as nearly 6 in 10 scientists in the US don't believe in God.
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This thread is for proof that God exists
by juandefiero inhowever, i haven't found any evidence to support that belief.. have you?
if so please, show me the evidence that god exists, and i will believe along with you.. criteria:.
(1) you must specify which god you are talking about;.
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Mephis
Newton's 'evidence' against atheism is that mammals and birds have two eyes and two arms etc and so it's 'senseless' to not believe in a creator. The only time he mentions the sun is to say men have worshiped it in the past. Everything after 'atheism is so senseless' is not attributable to Newton.
It's still a terrible argument whether one is pointing to biology or cosmology.
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Some observations...
by Wonderment intheburstbubble: just as a translation is it as accurate as they say it is?
or have they played with some of the verses to suit the beliefs?
just curious... i don't know why but i find it quite sad if the nwt is so misleading to support their own beliefs.
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Mephis
Another observation to make has to do with a certain pattern manifested in the religious community at large, and seen frequently in this forum as well: The belittling of anyone who defends the NWT in the slightest: "If Benjamin Kedar says something positive of the NWT, it is because he is not a top scholar." If David BeDuhnn defends the NWT, it is because he doesn't have a Ph.D in linguistics." "If George Howard theorized that the divine name appeared in the original Greek copies, then there are dozens of other scholars who believe otherwise, so he, and the NWT, must be wrong." And so on!
I think when someone appeals to authority on a subject, it's perfectly valid to question the value of that authority. George Howard flying a kite is a world away from him being able to prove the divine name was in Greek originals which we don't have, and really is curious grounds for some to fluff the NWT for having done so. BeDuhnn claiming the NWT is a very accurate translation of the NT because it (amongst other things) translates John 1:1 in the same way he chooses (and it is a choice - the irony of his using it as a criteria in a book about bias in translation) is as ridiculous as it sounds. It's also worth noting he still manages to identify problems with bias in the NWT. I wonder what Kedar would make of the latest revision to the NWT, because that very definitely does have translation to dogma in the OT (eg translating the David and the census 'contradiction' away). And etc etc etc.