Mephis

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Posts by Mephis

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  405

  Origin of Life

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

  as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

  there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

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  Mephis

  The quotes I gave you above say otherwise.

  You'll find I summarised the direct quote very correctly.
  
  
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  405

  Origin of Life

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

  as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

  there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

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  Mephis

  This does not mean that the life-force [spirit] actually travels to heaven. Rather, it means that for someone who dies, any hope of future life rests with Jehovah God. His life is in God’s hands, so to speak. Only by God’s power can the spirit, or life-force, be given back so that a person may live again.

  They've transformed the idea (and the words) into a metaphor. It's their way round the whole 'soul' problem. And it leaves lots of wriggle room on the question you pose too. God doesn't literally get the spirit back. He doesn't literally have to give it to make something alive. Or they'd have to explain where God fits in with the baby making process etc etc.
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  405

  Origin of Life

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

  as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

  there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

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  Mephis

  In JW world, if science produces life from rocks the cell would have spirit. Where would that have come from?

  From the scientists who were created by God. Just as angels could have babies before the Flood by making physical bodies for themselves.
  

  You're looking for a way to pin this down when it's gibberish to start with Cofty. There isn't a huge shift required for them to explain it away. 'Spirit' is just another way of saying 'alive'.
  
  
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  405

  Origin of Life

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

  as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

  there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

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  Mephis

  I don't really see it either there. The 'spirit' is like electricity in the links Cofty gave. They have to clarify that on death the spirit doesn't really go back to God because it becomes a way of saying 'something is alive' - which seems flatly in contradiction to the bible verses they have to address. The article addresses 'only' God raising the dead, but not whether God's involved every time a baby is made. (Because if he is, oops on the angels, women and Flood thing!).

  The question is whether man making life would be problematic. And I'm not sure it is. In JW theology, God isn't involved in the production of spirit on a day-to-day basis. It's passed on, but he's the only originator. It's whether or not the means of transmission is an issue should scientists one day create life. I suspect that it won't be a huge problem for them to explain away, as the article SBF linked hints at.
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  44

  Canadian Appeal Court decision made the news: Judges can overturn unfair church edicts

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://news.nationalpost.com/news/religion/alberta-appeal-court-rules-judges-can-overturn-unfair-church-edicts.

  the other day, this court decision was posted on jwn along with a link to the court document, but few expected the media to pick up the story.

  so to all involved, i understand it was a surprise to see the story in print.

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  Mephis

  Wow. This is really surprising. I can't see that ever happening in America.

  The principle exists in the US where if a 'shunning' by a community impacts upon your business then there is potentially a case to be heard by a court. (eg Bear v. Reformed Mennonite Church, Pennsylvania, 1975). But, you're right, more often civil law isn't keen at all to intervene in cases like this. We may disagree with the parallel drawn about a religious community being like a private members' club, but that is how they have been treated for things like this for a very long time across a number of jurisdictions. A court can't force people not to shun someone.
  Will be interesting to see what practical remedy is suggested by the Canadian courts should they ultimately rule in this man's favour.
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  405

  Origin of Life

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

  as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

  there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

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  Mephis

  Does 'the breath of life' actually need to come from God? You're right, there's absurdities in there, but they've shuffle room. 'God's creation made life therefore it's still coming from God'. That kind of nonsense. 'When a baby is born, God doesn't breathe life into each and very baby...;. 'It's a metaphor...;.
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  27

  Directed panspermia - a plausible theory of intelligent design?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have just read an interesting article by astrobiologist jacob haq-misra.. in this article he describes a process called "directed panspermia" as a plausible way that one form of intelligent design - one not related with religious driven agendas involving theism - could be involved in the process by which life developed on earth and possibly in other planets as well.. sounds like a speculation that's worth entertaining.

  your thoughts?.

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  Mephis

  Would have more time for it if there were evidence for life having been brought to earth. That's the point where the various ideas on how that may have happened would start to get interesting. Until then, not really much to it.
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  37

  What is the Education Level of the Governing Body members?

  by Wild_Thing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would love to compile a list of the education obtained by the governing body members both past and present.

  can anyone provide any information to get me started?.

  it still amazes me they think they can translate ancient languages with an 8th grade education.

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  Mephis

  Lloyd Barry and Albert Schroeder had degrees, didn't they? Don't think either of them involved languages relevant to translating the Bible from Greek etc.

  On Schroeder: "He studied Latin, German, and electrical engineering at the University of Michigan."

  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006689

  
  
  
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  19

  Share Your Favorite Shakespeare

  by compound complex in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  give me my romeo; and, when he shall die,take him and cut him out in little stars,and he will make the face of heaven so finethat all the world will be in love with nightand pay no worship to the garish sun.. -- romeo and juliet 3 ii.

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  Mephis

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zEVZGuU3BU
  
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  48

  Happiness and Freedom On A Paradise Earth?

  by Disassociated Lady 2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  at a recent meeting there was a watchtower article about life in paradise.

  they were saying that even when witnesses finally get there they will still be under the strict instructions from the elders and gb.

  they may be given jobs that they will find unpleasant, also the preaching work will be ongoing because of all the resurrected people who need to learn about why they are given another chance.

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  Mephis

  Amuses me that even their own doctrine has it that, after 1000 years of their ideal paradise, most of the people left alive decide they'd rather have Satan back in charge.