Posts by Mephis

74

That's it! The Jesus stories are most reasonably explained as myth. History makes this obvious.

by Island Man in

a careful examination of the historical pagan religious context existing at the time of the genesis of christianity leads any reasonable person to conclude that jesus is just another one of several similar myths.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn7teoa9ark.

Mephis

The problem with the 'all scripture is inspired' bit, is which scripture did that particular writer mean? Was a letter from 'Paul' considered scripture as soon as he wrote it? One wouldn't have thought so. And when Paul was supposedly doing the apostolic thing it's very likely much of the rest of what was later decided was to form the NT canon hadn't been written either, let alone been formalised into a canon of any sort. That came about much later.

So, no, that scripture proves only that early Christians hadn't rejected what came to form the OT.

This is 101 stuff Perry. Ehrman's point is that there are thousands of differences between manuscripts for the NT. The vast bulk of those are minor, many just scribal errors. But some are quite significant. And there is ample evidence for the early Christian church being quite open to revising what they had received, not to mention adding to it further with even later writings. Paul's writings actually set the standard for this - his whole claim to being an apostle was in a divine revelation to him personally. Others clearly felt they too had been similarly chosen out in such a way. Who gets to decide which of them is right? Ehrman is quite right in saying, this is the part preceding what you quoted, that it's a fairly modern definition of being a Christian to accept that the bible is infallible. As he points out in the article you quote, there's nothing about this being a doctrinal necessity in any early christian statements of faith.

18

WATCHTOWER'S basic premise is false (i.e. copy the earliest form of Christianity and you get it 'right')

by Terry in

watchtower's so-called 'scholars' (excuse me while i throw up) have a basic premise they have always worked under.

namely, the earliest form of christianity was the purest and least corrupt.

by trying to pattern jw's after this earliest form of "purity of christian doctrine" the so-called truth is supposed to emerge.. well--apparently this is a false premise, according to bart ehrman.. _____.

Mephis

It would be interesting if the GB were to actually cite which non-canon writings of early Christianity they had consulted in order to try and emulate early Christianity. Because it really is relying on an ex cathedra pronouncement of what constitutes the 'inspired word' to use just the NT in order to try and re-create original beliefs. Surely if the early christian church found something worth reading, it should be included in the canon of anyone seeking to recreate their beliefs? But of course that can't happen because it leads to awkward questions which have even fewer answers in JWland. There's only so many references to Cedar Point, Ohio the Bible could contain after all...

The idea of 'one truth' came up on Terry's interesting thread on Papias too. There is ample evidence for early Christianity not being one detailed doctrine which all held in common. There are clear hints of that even within the New Testament with the debate over circumcision, the disagreements between converts etc. There's some debate around passages in Luke and how they relate to Marcion's version of it, isn't there?

Personally, I do wonder whether many of the early Christians were waiting for Christ's return within the first couple of generations and it was the failure of that to happen which then led to the move to reading things less literally. So perhaps at least there one could identify similarities between JWs and the early Christian church... Vladimir and Estragon are very patient in their waiting too...

43

Deconstructing Splanes 'Generation' explanation

by Splash in

at around 4 minutes into the september 2015 video splane said "for the man and the baby to be part of josephs generation they would have had to have lived at least some time during joseph's lifespan.".

this is the lynchpin of the wt argument, that two lives must overlap to be considered the same generation.. let's take an example of twins who are born just a few minutes apart.

obviously, these twins are the same generation as each other.

Mephis

So, 2025/26 is 6000 years after Adam using their current timeline. Cue rumours and excitement for the poor souls still inside - if you're reading this a decade from now, yes, they've done the subtle hinting before and they'll blame everyone but themselves for misunderstanding when it doesn't happen. 2034 is a Noah-like warning after 1914 which some seem to have already latched onto. And 2074 will be 200 years since JWs first said Christ had arrived. It's less a generation, more a relay.

7

Governing Body member Jackson's amended statement to the Australia investigation dated 9-2-2015

by Watchtower-Free in

statement of geoffrey jackson to royal commission of australia regarding child sexual abuse.

published september 2nd.

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/downloadfile.ashx?guid=9d0ca1dc-1bd6-41c4-9cfc-b1d616d1cc65&type=exhibit&filename=stat.0670.001.0001&fileextension=pdf.

Mephis

LostGeneration - it can mean both as its literal meaning is 'to save'. But the sense of the verse implies a physical sickness, or else why mention sin as a possibility too, as you say. The Greek word is sosei, and is used also for Christ healing people of illness. Contextually, you have to be reading James with tinted glasses to take the meaning as not being similar to eg Matthew 9 (NWT version), have bolded where the same word is used.

Then Jesus got up and, with his disciples, followed him.20 And look! a woman suffering for 12 years from a flow of blood+ approached from behind and touched the fringe of his outer garment,+ 21 for she kept saying to herself: “If I only touch his outer garment, I will get well.” 22 Jesus turned around and, noticing her, said: “Take courage, daughter! Your faith has made you well.”+ And from that hour the woman was made well

40

New Geoffrey Jackson statement on Royal Commission's webpage!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Viva la Vida in

jw
friends

check his signature... it looks kind of childish/feminine (at least in my part of the world)... is this a grown man's signature for you?.

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/downloadfile.ashx?guid=9d0ca1dc-1bd6-41c4-9cfc-b1d616d1cc65&type=exhibit&filename=stat.0670.001.0001&fileextension=pdf.

Mephis

How do you read Deuteronomy 22, and still think two witnesses is meant because it involves the death penalty? vs 13 - 19 talk about stoning a woman to death if a bit of cloth can't be found to prove she was a virgin. They really aren't the brightest on even their own specialist subject.

18

Jesus was historical, and inspired too!

by iconoclastic in

jesus said something that only our generation could provide an avalanche of proof.

he said: it is easier for a camel to get through a needles eye than for a rich man to get into the kingdom of god.

(mathew 19:24).

Mephis

The gulf in wealth inequality in some countries is as bad as it's been since, well, the 1920s and before. Which generation do you mean? The never-ending one since 1914? The generation of 1874? It's absence of records pre-C19th which really hinders anything but educated guesswork prior to then. But I'd suggest a slave in the Roman Empire, a serf in the Middles Ages etc etc. would wonder why Jesus forgot about them if this can only apply in the year 2015.

I'd be a little more convinced if Jesus had predicted climate change as a result of industrialisation. But he forgot that part in his 'signs'. He'd have saved far the lives of far more people if he'd remebered to mention bacteria and viruses to someone too.

6

Is the Koran (or, parts of it) older than Muhammad?

by fulltimestudent in

islamic tradition rests on a foundation of the (claimed) writings of muhammad, that we know as the koran (or, quran).

so in that view believers see him restoring the original monotheistic faith of all the prophets ( of the west asian tradition).. its important to know that muhammad was born in mecca (in arabia) somewhere around 570 ce.

his parents died when he was young, and he was given into the care of his uncle abu talib.

Mephis

If the manuscript were a century earlier at the very latest, sure, that would start the search for some answers. But the date ranges mesh well with traditional Islamic dating, so there's not really a conflict here. I suspect some poor academic has been asked a question, answered it honestly, and the story has taken off. If the early end of the date range is correct, yes, interesting questions. But the tests weren't saying that one has to take the earlier dates as being more likely than the later.

Not really proof of anything, although the ideas on the origins of Islam and its writings are interesting in themselves.

34

Hebrew Was The First Language

by Bloody Hotdogs! in

according to the newest watchtower:.

jehovah communicated with adam in the garden of eden, using human language.

god likely did so in an ancient form of hebrew.

Mephis

Well they all had Hebrew names so case proven, m'lud.

I just don't.. no.. 6,000 years ago this happened you say?

16

Price for Child Abuse

by vinman in

how much money do you think the watchtower will have to dish out for this scandal in australia?

Mephis

They won't get the option to decide whether or not they will be providing redress, but they will no doubt fight every step of the way on who should receive any from them.

If one takes 1750 survivors (roughly the number given by the WT's own records) who could potentially seek redress, multiply that by the average $Aus 64,000 (one of the commission's suggested figures for weighting redress), you get $Aus 112m (52m pound sterling / $US 80m). That would likely be spread over 5 years or so.

I think the survivors who've found the strength to take their cases to court in the past probably have it right - the WBTS won't take child safeguarding seriously until they make the financial calculation and realise things can no longer go on as they have been. Still not sure I can wrap my head around just how pig ignorant the GB are.

12

Was this crazy crap going on in your hall as well?

by Crazyguy in

so any way i wonder if this kinda of activity is the norm in halls?

my wife has my youngest boy calling an older couple in the hall grampa and grandma, my oldest daughter called another older brother grandpa, and the ms that is studying with my two oldest boys on the down low (like i don't know), he's calling g them his boys.

what the he'll?

Mephis

Same as Mickey mouse for me growing up. Uncles and aunties.