Mephis

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Posts by Mephis

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  7

  Some observations...

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  theburstbubble: just as a translation is it as accurate as they say it is?

  or have they played with some of the verses to suit the beliefs?

  just curious... i don't know why but i find it quite sad if the nwt is so misleading to support their own beliefs.

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  Mephis

  Another observation to make has to do with a certain pattern manifested in the religious community at large, and seen frequently in this forum as well: The belittling of anyone who defends the NWT in the slightest: "If Benjamin Kedar says something positive of the NWT, it is because he is not a top scholar." If David BeDuhnn defends the NWT, it is because he doesn't have a Ph.D in linguistics." "If George Howard theorized that the divine name appeared in the original Greek copies, then there are dozens of other scholars who believe otherwise, so he, and the NWT, must be wrong." And so on!

  I think when someone appeals to authority on a subject, it's perfectly valid to question the value of that authority. George Howard flying a kite is a world away from him being able to prove the divine name was in Greek originals which we don't have, and really is curious grounds for some to fluff the NWT for having done so. BeDuhnn claiming the NWT is a very accurate translation of the NT because it (amongst other things) translates John 1:1 in the same way he chooses (and it is a choice - the irony of his using it as a criteria in a book about bias in translation) is as ridiculous as it sounds. It's also worth noting he still manages to identify problems with bias in the NWT. I wonder what Kedar would make of the latest revision to the NWT, because that very definitely does have translation to dogma in the OT (eg translating the David and the census 'contradiction' away). And etc etc etc.
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  21

  NWT...how accurate?

  by Theburstbubble in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm sorry if i'm covering old ground here.

  but is the nwt bible a credible translation of the scriptures?

  i'm not asking if you believe in the bible or not.

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  Mephis

  2 Samuel 24:1 is my personal favorite in their list of 'idiosyncratic' translations. No longer do you need wonder whether YHWH or Satan (1 Chronicles 21:1) incited David to take a census because the Governing Body have translated away the contradiction.

  It's worthless to me as a translation. It just isn't worth the time needed to crosscheck it.
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  26

  Proof of false prophecies...in pictures

  by rebel8 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  post photographic evidence of dubs' false prophecies.

  i'll start:.

  the preaching work will conclude in the 20th century.

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  Mephis

  "And there will be... fearful sights." - Luke 21:11

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StI2n-Tg2vw
  
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  29

  Deleware child abuse case major implications

  by poopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  follow case it may change judicial comittees

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  Mephis

  The constitutional conflict in this case was that the wording of the exemption wasn't open to all religions without interpretation. Instead of allowing that to be a barrier, the judge (and the JW lawyer agreed) decided to apply JW practice to the wording.

  States can individually decide whether or not to allow an exemption. eg West Virgina and New Hampshire specify they do not recognise a clergy privilege in these cases and require clergy to report, as does Guam. Four other states (including Texas) don't mention clergy specifically but do say there is no clergy penitent privilege when it comes to reporting child abuse. source: https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/clergymandated.pdf

  So the issue is whether JWs fit the exemption as worded in Delaware. If they don't, they report as they have to do in other states already. If they do, they get an exemption in Delaware as they have in other states already.

  The lack of an exemption in other states hasn't changed how they operate a JC. I presume, however, they do report in those states - as they are legally required. The question is whether or not the Delaware case will undermine their claim to clergy/penitent privilege in those states where they claim it. I suspect that much will depend on the wording of legislation and the willingness of people to press a prosecution.

  eg Illinois' definition of this privilege seems impossible to challenge on the same grounds as that of Delaware.

  A member of the clergy or practitioner of any religious denomination accredited by the religious body to which he or she belongs shall not be compelled to disclose in any court, or to any administrative body or agency, or to any public officer, a confession or admission made to him or her in his or her professional character or as a spiritual advisor in the course of the discipline enjoined by the rules or practice of such religious body or of the religion that he or she professes, nor be compelled to divulge any information that has been obtained by him or her in such professional character or such spiritual advisor.
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  30

  "New light"?

  by winstonchurchill in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-june-2016/man-with-inkhorn/.

  so i guess baptism is no longer the "mark for survival".. as a matter of fact, that key aspect of the 'old light' is not even acknowledged in this article.. they are just publishing new understanding without even bothering to explain the full extent of the change, hoping nobody will remember how it was... and they may be right about that..

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  Mephis

  Wrote something elsewhere, but this prophecy was one of Rutherford's initial explanations for how there could be an anointed class and a great crowd (Jehu class and Jehonadab class).

  Changing it to an 'end of times' prophecy makes even less sense, using JW beliefs, because now the anointed are passive observers to a 'marking'. The idea that those marked are active JWs becomes even more ridiculous when you realise none of those marked are even outside of Jerusalem (which was once considered Christendom) nor doing much more than 'groaning' about conditions.

  The logical conclusion to the new interpretation is that you don't have to be an active JW, just unhappy with how the world is, to be marked. They try to deny that in their new interpretation but there's absolutely nothing in Ezekiel 9 to suggest that those 'marked' do anything but get 'marked'. And you have to wonder how this latter day Ezekiel is outside of events in Jerusalem without a rapture style event.

  This is the problem they have with picking apart Russell and Rutherford. They're relying on the 'sheep' being too dim, or too fearful, to point out how it's all falling apart. But if you're still inside and believing, you bought overlapping generations so...
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  29

  Deleware child abuse case major implications

  by poopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  follow case it may change judicial comittees

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  Mephis

  It hasn't changed a thing with procedure where the exemption under debate in Delaware doesn't exist to be used. But, if they lose the case, it may result in a change in reporting policy at least in Delaware and states with similarly worded exemptions.
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  10

  lf evolution is true then doesnt it make sense that other life forms exist on far away planets.?

  by atomant in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just thought ld throw it out there for discussion.lf we evolved from nothing doesnt it stand to reason that other life forms also evolved from nothing?l mean lets face it time is infinite.

  so given enough time its possible for anything to happen isnt it?

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  Mephis

  It wouldn't surprise me if we found evidence of life having existed on Mars a few billion years ago, and we may even discover life on some of the moons in the solar system over the next 50 years or so as we are able to explore them.

  We're discovering that life is possible in the most extreme environments possible on Earth. That translates to its possibility on other planets.

  We're limited more by our ability to explore and locate any which may exist. Intelligent life is equally difficult as we need to be in detectable range and the distances and timescales are just so vast. It's perfectly possible that we may be the only intelligent life in existence right now in any case. Other intelligent life may never overlap with our ability to detect each other, even if we could.
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  26

  lf you had the opportunity to ask the GB a question what would it be?

  by atomant in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  l thought this would be an interesting exercise to read the different responses.

  my question is what makes you think your gods chosen medium?and prove it.

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  Mephis

  Won't you be screwed if there's no wifi in paradise?
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  13

  Jehovah or Jesus: Who Is To Come?

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one thing i've never understood about jw eschatology is how it views armageddon and the end times.

  the leaders and writers have evolved in their understanding of what's supposed to happen in the timeline.

  below are bible scriptures relating to biblical armageddon.

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  Mephis

  Elaine Pagels' work on gnosticism (and indeed Revelation) is excellent if you're interested in the history and beliefs of the various gnostic groups.

  Don't wish to divert your thread futher. But I'll flag up the point again that if you're looking for a logical way to deconstruct JW beliefs then you may need to do that from within the beliefs themselves on something like this. Because they are so idiosyncratic and logically inconsistent. And basic assumptions of any particular church as to meaning frequently don't hold true when passed through the WBTS filter. Makes chopping theology which requires that outside perspective (and equally subjective too it has to be said) difficult I'd imagine.

  All the best!
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  83

  Christadelphian

  by Billy1000 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my name is stephen and i am new to the forum.

  i am a christadelphian and through my discussions with fellow members of my ecclesia it has inspired me to reach out to other religions to find out exactly what others believe to enhance my own faith and further bring me closer to our heavenly father.

  in no way do i mean disrespect if it has been caused.

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  Mephis

  I'm a non-JW, though I have some in the family. So, I'm on the outside looking in. I do consider myself a believer in JC's sacrifice, but I don't judge. I don't shun. And some of my best buds are what you'd consider agnostic/atheist. One of them is a dog lover, and raises service dogs. Anyway, here's a link to that article:
  http://thewatchtowerfiles.com/ex-jws-atheists/

  Whilst acknowledging the limits of such surveys, the polls of ex-jws online I've seen mirror within a few percentage points polls of wider society in my country. ie around a 50/50 split. (https://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/religion-and-belief-some-surveys-and-statistics/).

  The article is correct in one sense for my journey. The logical end point of reading the bible critically was a lack of belief in an Abrahamic god or any variation based upon it. A god who decided to ban shellfish over slavery? Really?

  edit: I agree very much with several other points the author of that article makes, especially his conclusion on encouraging people to live their lives without damning them for having a belief or not, just not every point he makes in there.