Posts by aChristian

251

space.com dates Noah's flood to 2350 B.C.

by aChristian in

jw
friends

the watchtower society dates noah's flood to 2370 b.c.e.

they do this by following bible chronology quite closely, counting backwards from 607 b.c.e., their date for babylon's destruction of jerusalem.

however, as we know, the society's date for that event is in error.

aChristian

Some fundamentalists now allow for the possibility that Noah's flood may have occurred a few thousand years earlier than the date a very strict reading of the Bible's chronological record indicates. (That date, as published by James Ussher over 350 years ago, is 2350 BC) They do so by saying that there may be some "gaps" in the Genesis genealogies.

Whitcomb and Morris, in the final paragraph of their book The Genesis Flood, wrote, "It would seem to us that even the allowance of 5,000 years between the flood and Abraham stretches Genesis 11 almost to its breaking point. The time has come when those who take the testimony of God's infallible word with seriousness should begin to look with favor upon the efforts of those who are examining and exposing the unwarranted assumptions and false presuppositions of uniformitarianism as it applies to the dating of early man."

In other words, fundamentalists believe that they should always put their belief that the Bible definitely teaches that our planet was completely flooded with water just a few thousand years ago ahead of the findings of modern science when it comes to determining how long mankind has widely, and continually, inhabited our earth. Their reaction to stories such as the one you just posted is always to say, "The findings of scientists pertaining to the dating of early man must be in error, because our interpretations of the Bible cannot be."

251

space.com dates Noah's flood to 2350 B.C.

by aChristian in

jw
friends

the watchtower society dates noah's flood to 2370 b.c.e.

they do this by following bible chronology quite closely, counting backwards from 607 b.c.e., their date for babylon's destruction of jerusalem.

however, as we know, the society's date for that event is in error.

aChristian

IW,

You wrote: We will always disagree on Paul and other things recorded in the Bible.

Maybe not. For, as you said, "God will at his appointed time grant us the blessing of having his spirit in full measure." And as Paul said, "Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now we know in part; then we shall know fully." (1 Cor. 13:12)

251

space.com dates Noah's flood to 2350 B.C.

by aChristian in

jw
friends

the watchtower society dates noah's flood to 2370 b.c.e.

they do this by following bible chronology quite closely, counting backwards from 607 b.c.e., their date for babylon's destruction of jerusalem.

however, as we know, the society's date for that event is in error.

aChristian

Alan,

You wrote: I also thought you might find the references useful. ... The stuff I posted is not from a CDROM; I typed it in by hand.

Ouch! Make that double thanks then. Like you, I'm keeping your post for future reference. Thanks again.

Mike

251

space.com dates Noah's flood to 2350 B.C.

by aChristian in

jw
friends

the watchtower society dates noah's flood to 2370 b.c.e.

they do this by following bible chronology quite closely, counting backwards from 607 b.c.e., their date for babylon's destruction of jerusalem.

however, as we know, the society's date for that event is in error.

aChristian

Six,

Let's just assume for the sake of argument that you ran across something which convinced you that our universe was created by an all powerful God, and that that same God inspired the writing of the Bible. At that point do you think you would be able to consider the possibility that you now misunderstand the portions of the Bible which cause you to believe that the God described therein is unworthy of worship? Do you think you might then consider the possibility that a God who was intelligent enough to create our entire universe, and who loved us all so much that He allowed His only Son to die for us, might have done the things, which you now think make Him unworthy of worship, for some very good reasons which you do not now fully understand?

Alan,

Thanks for taking the time to point out the many holes in Clash's "research," which certainly disproved Clash's charges of dishonesty against me. It looks like you have several reference works on CD Rom which come in quite handy at times. I may just have to buy some of those next time I have a few bucks to spare. I was, however, surprised to see you respond to Clash at such length. Considering the fact that probably no one here takes him seriously anyway, and your own stated policy of "Don't feed the trolls." But I know they do get to all of us at times. I find myself responding more often than I should to Gary's stuff, when I am almost certain no one here takes him seriously. Some here seem to feel that you spend too much time responding to YK. I disagree. I think if YK's defense of the WTS went unchallenged he might very well succeed in his efforts to bring many people here under the Watchtower's yoke of slavery once again.

With that in mind, I have a question for you. If the Bible is not the word of God, aren't people like me nearly as dangerous as YK? People who, by means of a moderate tone and reasonable sounding words, might actually succeed in persuading some people here to "waste their lives" following a "nonexistent God."

22

we were never s'pose to die????

by Julie in

jw
friends

out of the many things from the bible i wonder about there was one i thought i would share with you all and see if you may have any interesting insights on this issue.. according to the bible man was suppose to live forever, no sickness, easy childbirth for women, just your basic paradise, right?.

so ok, we all know that because that wretched eve screwed it up for all of us and everything we now have suffering and death.. my problem with all of this is this: what if all the people who had ever lived had never died?

how many of us would there be on the planet?

aChristian

Julie,

You wrote: According to the bible man was suppose to live forever, no sickness, easy childbirth for women, just your basic paradise, right?

Wrong. Your concerns are only valid if we understand the Bible to teach that God intended for the human race to live forever on earth. This is JW theology, but is it really a teaching supported by the Bible? No, it is not. The fact of the matter is that the Bible clearly teaches that God created the human race mortal. God created us to die.

The Genesis account clearly indicates that Adam and Eve were created mortal with a dying nature just like us. The story of Adam and Eve told in Genesis makes clear that their being able to live forever was not a part of their original physical nature. Rather, Adam and Eve's ability to live forever depended entirely on their eating from a tree "in the middle of the garden" of Eden, "the tree of life." (Genesis 2:9) Genesis tells us that Adam and Eve were going to be allowed to continue to eat from that tree only if they passed a God given test, a test which we are told they failed. After failing that test God expelled Adam and his wife from the Garden of Eden and prevented them from ever again eating from "the tree of life."

Genesis indicates that when God prevented Adam and Eve from eating from "the tree of life" they died what were apparently natural deaths. A careful reading of the Genesis account shows us that living forever would have been as unnatural for Adam and Eve as it would now be for us. Genesis does not indicate that Adam and Eve originally had eternal life programmed into their genetic codes by God and later had their genetic codes reprogrammed by God in order to remove eternal life from those codes. Rather, Genesis indicates that Adam and Eve would have lived forever only if God had graciously given them eternal life from an outside source, "the tree of life." I believe that "tree of life" was meant to picture Jesus Christ.

God was going to give Adam and Eve eternal life from an outside source, "the tree of life," only if they passed a very simple test. And the Bible tells us that we will be given eternal life from an outside source, Jesus Christ, only if we pass a very simple test. That test is to simply believe in our hearts that Christ's death was sufficient payment to buy every human being God's full forgiveness, forgiveness for both our sinful nature and our sinful acts.

You wrote: This has got to be one of the most absurd ideas in the bible. I would have to put it second to the assertion the bible makes that many animals became carnivores *after* the "global flood" when there was supposedly only two of each species in existence. But that of course is another post.

It is also a topic which has recently been discussed at great length in another thread, in which I maintain that the Bible makes no such assertions. That discussion can be found here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17590&site=3

251

space.com dates Noah's flood to 2350 B.C.

by aChristian in

jw
friends

the watchtower society dates noah's flood to 2370 b.c.e.

they do this by following bible chronology quite closely, counting backwards from 607 b.c.e., their date for babylon's destruction of jerusalem.

however, as we know, the society's date for that event is in error.

aChristian

Six,

Thank you for the kind words.

By the way, when you researched the Bible and found no "intelligent arguments for it coming from a supernatural source," do you think that your research might have been incomplete? In other words, do you think it is possible that some Bible believers who were previously skeptics, like myself, might have become believers only after considering "intelligent arguments" which you have not yet considered?

Just wondering.

251

space.com dates Noah's flood to 2350 B.C.

by aChristian in

jw
friends

the watchtower society dates noah's flood to 2370 b.c.e.

they do this by following bible chronology quite closely, counting backwards from 607 b.c.e., their date for babylon's destruction of jerusalem.

however, as we know, the society's date for that event is in error.

aChristian

Alan,

I was perfectly content to let this whole "flood" thread sink into oblivion. I don't know what more there is to be said on the subject. Then Clash drags it up just for the purpose of calling me a liar. Believe me, I was really tempted just to let it go. I guess I should have. I'm sure anyone who read his dumb accusation would have considered the source. He is presently baiting me into entering another thread he has started. I have not entered it and I have no intention of doing so. As you say, there is no point.

Clash,

You wrote: aChristian doesn't from his post believe in a historic Jesus that bible believing evangelicals talk about.

Will you please stop your attacks? I believe in Christ's virgin birth. I believe in Christ's miracles. I believe in Christ's sacrificial death. I believe in Christ's resurrection and in His ascension to heaven. I have never said anything to the contrary. Now, please leave me alone and I'll leave you alone.

251

space.com dates Noah's flood to 2350 B.C.

by aChristian in

jw
friends

the watchtower society dates noah's flood to 2370 b.c.e.

they do this by following bible chronology quite closely, counting backwards from 607 b.c.e., their date for babylon's destruction of jerusalem.

however, as we know, the society's date for that event is in error.

aChristian

Clash,

You call me a "liar" because I said the following: Hebrew lexicons tell us that "yom" had "several meanings," including "a period of time of unspecified duration." (see Vines Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, 1985, pg. 54)

Why do you call me a liar? Because you tell us that you have not found those words on "pg 270" of your "1981" edition of "Vine’s Expository Dictionary of the Old and New Testament."

Now that makes a lot of sense, Clash. Sometimes I actually wonder if you are for real or just putting us all on in an attempt to make Christians, or at least "fundamentalist" Christians, look stupid.

But just in case you are serious, I've got to ask you, do you really think I made up that reference? I have the book I quoted from right here in front of me, opened to page 54, and I'm now looking right at the words I quoted. Of course, I could be lying again, couldn't I Clash? So let's forget about my book. OK, Clash? Do you even realize that part of what you just cut and pasted says basically the same thing? Do you even read what you post?

You just posted the following: From vol. 2 pg. 420, speaking of the Hebrew word yom [quote]”as a measurement of time the term (yom) has three principal uses. (a) Its primary meaning is the time of daylight as distinct from the period of darkness ... (b) The term is also used for day in the sense of the complete cycle that includes both daytime and nighttime ...(c) The term day is also used in a variety of extended meanings, for instance, to indicate one’s lifetime.

"A VARIETY OF EXTENDED MEANINGS." I'll translate your own post for you, Clash. That means that the Hebrew word, "yom," which is translated into English as "day," the word Moses used repeatedly in Genesis chapter one, often means something other than a 24 hour day.

Clash, will you please stop this nonsense? Don't you realize how bad you make yourself look when you constantly call everyone who disagrees with you nasty names?

10

My Uncle(JW) shot 8 buy Pennsyl. State Police.

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

my (favorite)uncle(bud) was shot eight times at almost point blank range by the pennsylvania highway patrol officers.. he is my uncle from my fathers side there were four brothers alive when i was young, and ever single one seem to be fearless.. they did pretty much as they pleased and got away with alot.

none of them to my recollection seem to fear death(at least never showed it).. i remember picking out buckshot from my father's hand that my uncle bud(as we called him his real name was the same as my grandfather elmer).. my uncle roger was in the rodeo and was also a blacksmith.

one time he lassoed my cousin and myself when he was drunk and gave us rope burns around our neck.

aChristian

DW,

How long were you a JW? How long an elder? What caused you to leave the JWs? Just curious.

251

space.com dates Noah's flood to 2350 B.C.

by aChristian in

jw
friends

the watchtower society dates noah's flood to 2370 b.c.e.

they do this by following bible chronology quite closely, counting backwards from 607 b.c.e., their date for babylon's destruction of jerusalem.

however, as we know, the society's date for that event is in error.

aChristian

Clash,

I have no intention of responding to any more of your posts. I might if you treated me and others here kindly. But you don't. You continually call us "crooked," "liars" and other such slanderous names. Besides I see no point in arguing with you any longer. I already answered all of the objections raised in the articles written by Gunn in my previous posts. You either didn't bother to read them or couldn't comprehend what you read. In either case there seems to me to be no point in again writing something you will probably not read anyway.

One more thing, I never said or implied that I was able to read biblical Hebrew. I am not. I am, however, able to read biblical Hebrew lexicons which tell us the meaning of biblical Hebrew words like "yom," the Hebrew word Moses used in Genesis chapter one which is translated into English as "day." As I pointed out earlier (a phrase I often use when talking to Clash), Hebrew lexicons tell us that "yom" had "several meanings," including "a period of time of unspecified duration." (see Vines Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, 1985, pg. 54)

Clash, I see no point in discussing these things further with you. I do not believe our salvation as Christians will be affected by how we understand the Hebrew word "yom," or by whether we believe the flood of Noah's day was local or global. It may, however, be affected by how we treat others. Something you might do well to remember as you continue to interact with others on this discussion board.