space.com dates Noah's flood to 2350 B.C.

by aChristian 251 Replies latest jw friends

  • aChristian
    aChristian

    The Watchtower Society dates Noah's flood to 2370 B.C.E. They do this by following Bible chronology quite closely, counting backwards from 607 B.C.E., their date for Babylon's destruction of Jerusalem. However, as we know, the Society's date for that event is in error. All serious historians date that event to 587/6 B.C.E. Using that date as our starting point, and following the same Bible chronology used by the Society and others, we wind up with a 2350 B.C.E. date for Noah's flood.

    I find this quite interesting because a recent article published at space.com, a highly credible web site, discusses in some detail the theory that the meteor, which created the large crater recently discovered in southern Iraq, caused a catastrophic flood in that part of the world only a few thousand years ago. It also mentions the fact that recent studies of tree rings strongly suggest that a major, short term, climate altering event, such as a large meteor impact, appears to have occurred in .... guess what year. Yup. "2350 BC"

    By the way, the article dates the account of the deluge found in "The Epic of Gilgamesh," which many Bible critics say was the basis of the Bible's flood account, to "circa 2200 BC." That's one hundred and fifty years AFTER Bible chronology, and the new tree ring studies, indicate Noah's flood occurred.

    The article, entitled "Comets, Meteors & Myth: New Evidence for Toppled Civilizations and Biblical Tales" may be read at this Web address: http://space.com/scienceastronomy/planetearth/comet_bronzeage_011113-1.html

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Very Interesting!

    If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
  • ashitaka
    ashitaka

    Very cool. Thanks for the site.

    ashi

  • anewperson
    anewperson

    That and a lot more related material:

    NOAH'S FLOOD AND ARK, INTERESTING INSIGHTS: This offers varying views on Noah's flood including modern genetic information. Those proposing a planet-wide flood note that if just a local flood Noah could have simply moved to an unaffected area and not needed to have had animals in an ark for safety because they would have survived outside the flood zone, while others say that though not planet-wide it was indeed a significant flood in that it involved a vast area where humans then lived and the animals that were taken into the ark were in fact extremely significant for human existence. Possibly in support for this, Hebrew words for the ark's animals are "nefesh" meaning birds and mammals and the word "basar" specifying creatures for human livelihood.

    Oral traditions of a flood that threatened humanity are found among Amerindians, Africans, and Asians including some in dessert regions. The Chinese goddess Nakua ended a worldwide Flood, India's hero Manu landed his ark upon a mountain top, so did the Greek king Deucalion. Components for the Chinese ideograph "ship" separately mean sailing vessel, eight or several, and mouth or person(s), and 8 people were in Noah's ark. Pre-flood mountains could well have been lower than today, fewer and thus more easily submerged, thus making a planet- wide flood possible; other considerations are that "har" in Hebrew means any elevation of 50 feet up. A dove brought back to Noah an olive leaf, a plant growing on lower hills instead of high mountains. Genesis 7:11 clarifies that water not only fell as rain but came from within the earth after it ruptured. As to a cause for such a rupture, some have speculated on the south-north rift valley in Africa that a comet may have wrought. Others have speculated about a series of volcanic eruptions since up to 90% of all material ejected from volcanoes consists of water in the form of steam.

    Excavations have uncovered remains within the same strata of warm climate animals mixed with those from cold climates, also fueling speculations of planet-wide flooding if not in Noah's time then eons before. Frozen mammoths in Alaska have plants between their teeth as if hit by a sudden catastrophe, and even the top of Mt Everest has warm-climate fossils. The ark had 3 stories (Ge 6:14-16) and held as much as 510 train cars. If carrying one of all animals planet-wide (excluding water creatures like whales), there would have been only a few extremely large, and these likely slept through the 40 days of darkness, thus requiring little food for them and causing them to produce less waste than normal. If a wide-spred but not planet-wide flood then possibly only beasts most necessary for human livelihood were on board.

    Some believe the Bible's saying the whole world was submerged is in the sense of the whole landscape or human population in view of Noah and those with him. For example Genesis 11:1 says "all the earth was of one language" clearly meaning not the planet but humans had one language. In similar fashion, too, Paul much later correctly wrote that the Good News had been preached in "all" the world of his time, probably alluding only to the three continents bordering the Mediterranean excluding the Americas, Antarctica and Australia. In 1997 marine geologists William Ryan and Walter Pittman published Noah's Flood on findings that the Mediterranean had once channeled through low mountains or hills to reach the Black Sea. That flood had channeled the Bosphorus Straits and deposited salt water with mud dated to 5600 BC over beds of freshwater mollusks, and it must also have wrecked havoc on all human civilization then along the Black Sea's shoreline.

    Various persons have also claimed to have found the remains of what may be Noah's ark in the mountains of Ararat. That might or might not be true, but in 2000 credible Associated Press reports stated that researchers definitely had found the remains of a house and tools under the Black Sea which could have dated to the days of Noah. They were also able to find Roman ships which sank later in a state of excellent preservant because the Black Sea's bottom has very little oxygen, thus not permitting sea bores to live, drill into and destroy such remains unlike in other seas. Female mitochondrial DNA point to a common female ancestor for all humans, whom scientists have dubbed "Eve," while male Y chromosomes point toward a common male ancestor of some 37-49,000 years ago, who has been dubbed "Noah." In Hebrew words such as father and son can have the usual literal meanings but can also mean "male ancestor of" or "male descendant of."

    Therefore though Bible chronologies may seem to specify the first humans Adam and Eve go back only some 7,000 years, they might also refer to numerous years even farther back in time. Studies of male Y chromosones show the genetic variability among all human races is extremely low contrasted to the much much greater variability among primates, leading to the conclusion that perhaps 37-49,000 years ago most all humans were destroyed and those who did survive thus derive from a common male, that is, a Noah. On the other hand others note the Bible's listing of human ages in Genesis when added up back to Noah's time dates the Flood at 2349 BC. Bronze age societies in Egypt and across the Earth suddenly ended about 2350 BC. The Gilgamesh epic dated about 2200 BC says the Middle East had fire then daytime darkness and an impact and "the Curse of Akkad" of about 2200 BC speaks similarly. From this time human sacrifices became more common in Asia, Europe and the Americas. Dust layers in the ocean and tree rings verify a cataclysm 2354-2345 BC. In 2001 a satellite photo showed a possible meteorite impact site in Iraq, Argentina has 2 similar sites, and some theorize about 5000 years ago comet Encke shattered and Earth eventually passed through the remains sustaining impacts. Such impacts would have included tsunamis with flooding. Visit our nonprofit Jah Christians egroup at the following to request more free Bible information: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jahchristian, or locally:

  • aChristian
    aChristian

    Some additional information:

    From a 1999 article in Universe entitled, "The Dark Ages: Were They Darker Than We Imagined" by Greg Bryant:

    It is a fact that debris from the Solar System does hit Earth and such are called meteors. In the 1950s the writer Velikovsky published "Worlds In Collision" which without scientific basis suggested a huge comet once came near Earth then settled into orbit as Venus, causing many indignant astronomers to also reject later scientifically-founded discoveries about meteor fragmentations along with possibly important revelations about the heaven that exist in both myths and historical records. But this has changed some as admitted for example by David Morrison, principal author of NASA's Spaceguard Survey Reports in 1992 and 1995, and also in the wake of significant comet impacts on Jupiter. Obviously any connections between meteors which are from the heavens also holds implications for society, religion, and civilization in general. So what is the evidence?

    Consider history and the Dark Ages. In the 6th century AD the Roman Empire was finished, nothing happening in the sciences. Italian historian Flavius Cassiodorus wrote in AD 536 of decreased sunlight of a bluish color, body shadows unseen at noon, a heatless summer,
    eclipse phenomena through almost a whole year, crops chilled by north winds and no rain. Procopius backed what he said, Lydus said solar dimness for nearly a year killed fruits unseasonably, and Michael the Syrian said solar darkness lasted 18 months, with about 4 hours of feeble sunlight daily, messing up fruits and wine. In China, stars vanished from sight for 3 months, sunlight dimmed, it didn't rain, snow was seen in mid-summer, famine was widespread, and the Emperor abandoned the capital. Justinian Plague went from central Asia, to Egypt then Europe.

    Science is helping confirm such historical accounts. Mike Baillie, Professor of Palaeoecology at Queens University, Belfast, Northern Ireland conducted a complete and continuous review of global tree growth patterns over the last 5,000 years and found 5 major
    environmental shocks worldwide shown in very thin ring widths 2354-2345 BC, 1628-1623 BC, 1159-1141 BC, 208-204 BC, and AD 536-545, which correspond with "dark ages" in civilisation. The weak tree growth of 2350 BC had been previously associated with an Icelandic volcano's eruption but that period also had floods, the creation of new lakes, and the start of Chinese history. French archaeologist Marie-Agnes Courty has also claimed new data about a catastrophe in the Middle East. Samples from 3 separate regions all appear to
    contain a calcite material found only in meteorites, and debris analysis shows an apparent combination of "a burnt surface horizon and air blast."

    In fact some 40 cities throughout N Africa, the Middle East, Europe, and Asia may have been devastated or disappeared about the same time in a series of catastrophes. The 12th century BC is associated with the "Greek Dark Ages", the end of the Hittite civilisation, end of Bronze Age Israel, end of the Bronze Age Shang dynasty in China. Ancient Chinese history speaks of rulers needing a "mandate from heaven," says that at the time "many gods and spirits were annihilated in this battle, and several stellar dignitaries were replaced by newcomers to the celestial domains." A likely source for what they called "dragons in the sky" are fragments from a disintegrating comet or asteroid like what hit Tunguska in 1908. Such impacts would have begun the various dark ages by casting up dust envelope the Earth, dimming the Sun and skies, causing earthquakes or tsunamis, etc. Impacts from meteor fragments occur more often than impacts from more intact masses of comet/asteroid impacts such as now believed to have wiped out the dinosaurs.

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    From The Telegraph – London Nov 4, 2001

    HOLY LAND POSSIBLY HIT BY METEOR ABOUT 2300 BC

    Scientists have found the first satellite photo evidence a devastating meteor impact in the Holy Land or Middle East region might have triggered the mysterious collapse of entire civilisations about 4000 years ago. Images of southern Iraq show a 2-mile-wide circular depression which if as an impact depression will mean the area was hit by a meteor as powerful as hundreds of nuclear bombs. It lies where a shallow sea then existed so that impact would have caused devastating fires and flooding., explaining why many early cultures went into sudden decline around 2300 BC including the Akkad of central Iraq with its mysterious semi-mythological emperor Sargon; the 5th dynasty of Egypt's Old Kingdom following the building of the Great Pyramids and the sudden disappearance of hundreds of early settlements in the Holy Land.

    The crater's faint outline was accidentally found by Dr Sharad Master, geologist at the U of Witwatersrand, Johannesburg, on satellite images of the Al 'Amarah region, about 10 miles nw of the Tigris-Euphrates confluence home of the Marsh Arabs. In the journal Meteoritics & Planetary Science, Master says a survey of the crater itself could reveal dateable melted rock which if to about 2300 BC could explain the Gilgamesh legend saying "Seven Judges of Hell" raised torches lighting the land, storm turned day into night and flooded the area. Dr Benny Peiser, lecturer on meteor impacts at John Moores U in Liverpool (UK), said this would corroborate the research of himself and others, and craters recently found in Argentina from around the same period suggest Earth may have been hit by a shower of large meteors about the same time.

  • Outaservice
    Outaservice

    Good Post aChristian.

    The ad at the top of this post shows the book THE GENTILE TIMES RECONSIDERED. If any have not read this, do so, as it absolutely proves there is no basis for the Society's 607 BCE date!

    Why the Organization holds to that date is beyond me, especially in view of the fact that the 1914 date has been greatly watered down.

    Outaservice

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    The problems with the theory that a meteor impact caused Noah's Flood are immense. First, there is no geological evidence that a major impact occurred in the Middle East around 2350 B.C. Second, a meteor impact is completely inconsistent with the Biblical story. So for Christians, if a meteor actually caused a huge flood at that time, then the Bible account is false. Conversely, if the Bible account is true, then the cause of the Flood cannot have been a meteor impact.

    An impact big enough to flood much of the Middle East would necessarily leave massive, unmistakeable scars visible today. There would be a recognizable crater somewhere in the sea near the Middle East (it would have to be in the sea because a land impact would not create the necessary splash). There is no such crater. Also, such an impact would generate a gigantic splash, which would wash over the land and gouge huge channels all over the region, much as are seen in the "channeled scabland" of eastern Washington State. There are no such channels in the region. Finally, such a huge splash would run off the land within a few days at most (this is basic physics), which would be completely inconsistent with the Bible account that it took nearly half a year even for land to become visible to Noah.

    AlanF

  • FreePeace
    FreePeace

    AlanF: Great logic and valid points!

    Plus, the logistics of the whole Noah's Flood story are impossible to reconcile. It never happened. But I am apparently preaching to the choir.

    FreePeace
    "The World is my country, and to do good, my religion." --Thomas Paine
    TruthQuest: http://beam.to/truthquest
    Who Am I? -How to Reinvent Yourself After Leaving the WTS

  • GWEEDO
    GWEEDO

    An older thread:

    Does Genesis teach a local flood?

    [url] http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10987&site=3#134707[/url]

    Local flood stuff from commentary press:

    [url] http://commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html[/url]

    JanH on local flood:

    [url] http://home.broadpark.no/~jhauglan/localflood.htm[/url]

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Thanks, Freepeace.

    I think that it will be interesting to note any replies from aChristian about my comments on a meteor impact, given the story he quoted from "The Telegraph - London Nov 4, 2001", which said that in southern Iraq "a 2-mile-wide circular depression" was recently discovered. We know from fully explored meteor craters (Meteor Crater in Arizona and a line of smaller ones in Australia) just what meteor craters look like. And we know that very young ones (Meteor Crater is about 50,000 years old and the Aussie ones are about 4-5000) look very much like craters on the moon, not mere shallow depressions. I will predict that if real scientists actually look this "circular depression" over up close, they'll find no meteor crater. Furthermore, think about the amount of water in the old lake in southern Iraq in which this speculated meteor might have crashed. Iraq is only a part of the Middle East, so how could a lake grow big enough in a splash to flood the entire Middle East for the better part of a year?

    I find it sad that so many Christians must jump on every tiny smidgen of evidence, no matter how flimsy or contradictory of their other beliefs, in order to bolster one especially cherished one.

    AlanF

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