Posts by SAHS

40

Another visit from the elders

by jonno12225 in

jw
friends

so i have another visit from the elder this week.

this time they want to speak with my wife, still a believer and myself.

i think they want to know my position about my children attending the meetings and some other things.. while preparing myself for it i though of a challenge for the elders and my wife.

SAHS

Whatever you do should be according to your own objective and self-integrity. Allow me to present the following three possibilities:

1. If you just want to avoid being disfellowshipped at all cost, then either

-- avoid the meeting altogether, or

-- allow the meeting, but be at their mercy and just give the standard "Sir, yes sir!" response to everything (it's okay to just switch your brain to the "off" mode in that case).

2. If, on the other hand, you don't really care about being disfellowshipped (or judged to be not an "approved associate" if you were never baptized) and the consequences that would entail, then

-- in that case, I would familiarize myself with all the pertinent issues relating to the trueness and authenticity of the Governing Body's claims of being the sole mouthpiece for God (right from Russell down to the latest change of the FDS comprising just the current GB) and let them have it from both barrels right in the face - BOOM!

3. The third option: if you want to be reasonably careful about avoiding being disfellowshipped/disassociated and want to keep your family together BUT you would also like to stand up for yourself and stand up for the idea of fairness, justice, and open-mindedness, then

-- in that case (which is the one I would be more inclined to choose myself), I would allow a brief meeting but I would just say to them something like, "Oh, and by the way, I was just wondering about a couple of things I was curious about that I thought perhaps you could shed some light on . . . ," and ask them, in somewhat of a matter-of-fact manner, about the missing Jesus in the April 15, 2013 Watchtower (I think that's the one) and also the change at the October 2012 annual meeting about the FDS comprising just the current GB, and, without raising suspicions or seeming dogmatic about it, just leave it up to them to give you an answer. This approach would at least give the elders, as well as your wife, something to at least think about; it would plant a little seed in their minds which they would have to come to terms with personally. If they ask you directly whether or not you believe that the GB is God's sole spirit-anointed organization, you don't have to answer either Yes or No but, instead, you could just say something like, "Don't get me wrong, brothers, I would certainly like to believe whatever the truth is, but to be honest I'm not absolutely sure given certain new technicalities I've become aware of, and I would welcome any thoughts you might have based on solid evidence." So, instead of just sticking your neck right out for them to chop it off, I would still give them something to think about - and put the burden of proof on them. If they really are intelligent and reasonable people, they should be able to offer you at least some little crumb of insight on these matters, and if (when!) they just end up putting their foot in their mouth, then, . . . . Voila!

52

Expectation is not a false prohecy, Is the Watchtower Society in the clear ?

by wasblind in

because there is a difference.

to expect somethin' doesn't mean it will happen.

for years the wts made a direct prophecy and have claimed to meet the qualifications.

SAHS

Ucantnome:" The way I understand it is that Ezekiel had to lie on his side. This was a certain amount of days and then destruction came on Jerusalem.

Their days were numbered.

If this had failed then Ezekiel would have been a false prophet. It didn't. "

And the Governing Body has been constantly known to lie on both sides of its mouth for quite a number of days, to their own destruction of its reputation, and proving all along that it is, in fact, a false prophet. [insert emoticon of a clown here]

147

Weird "new world" artwork from the 2013 calendar

by cedars in

jw
friends

my mother-in-law has a strange obsession with calendars, and orders the society's calendar each year.

this year's calendar is especially weird.

it features images depicting future events - in particular, the society's vision of the new world order.. i've taken the opportunity to scan some of the images for you all to check out.. please note - there are captions for each of the images, but i don't have the english language version of the calendar so i'd rather just quote the scripture used so as not to reveal which country i'm in.. .

SAHS

In the underwater swimming picture, I guess they chose a day when there wasn't any big, juicy Portuguese Man-of-Wars or box jellyfish with nice, long stinging tentacles floating by. . . . Oh, ya, I guess it doesn't matter because those jellyfish tentacles won't have any stinging neurotoxins which currently give you those lovely red welts on your skin.

And if you step on a stone fish, I guess you wouldn't have to worry - instead of deadly toxins coming out of those long barbs on its back, there would be something else coming out, something harmless, perhaps with vitamin C.

As for the blueprints used in the A-frame house construction scene, I guess they would use something new other than the rather nasty chemicals like ammonia currently used in the special blueprint copying machine.

Yep - no stings, bites, or nasty production chemicals. Reminds me of the song sung by Louis Armstrong called "What A Wonderful World." Aaaaa. (Sigh.)

184

A picture so outrageous, it deserves its own thread...

by cedars in

i mean no disrespect to sd-7 or his fine thread on which this picture has already featured, but i think it is just so ridiculous that it deserves a thread all of its own.. lurkers and apologists, this is how your precious organization views itself.... behold the madness.... .

.

cedars.

SAHS

I'd like to reiterate undercover's statement: "technically speaking again, Jesus is sitting at the right hand of Jehovah, so shouldn't he be up there with Dad? Maybe a somewhat smaller throne, but still in a position higher than the angels in steerage."

Absolutely correct! It's a fundamental Bible concept - see Acts 2:32-36 below:

32 This Jesus God resurrected, of which fact we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out this which YOU see and hear. 34 Actually David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom YOU impaled.”

So, the GB knows darn well where Jesus ought to be. However, Jesus is obviously conspicuous by his absence. . . . . Where is he? . . . . Oh yes, of course, he's merged identy with the GB - or, more accurately: he's been usurped by the GB!

41

Crazy Weird Quotes in 1/15 WT Article - WT Society Opinions-Nothing More

by flipper in

jw
friends

i won't follow a theme on this thread .

i'm just going to supply weird quotes from the current 1/15 wt article " keep drawing close to jehovah " and then you can draw your own takes and conclusions on these insane " opinions " from the wt society.. paragraph 3 : " marketers cleverly convince people that they must have the latest products.

one young man so passionately desired a particular tablet computer that he secretly sold one of his kidneys to buy it.

SAHS

Paragraph 9 : " Offering health advice or products- solicited or unsolicited - can detract from our spiritual purpose and rob others of their joy. "

One of the brothers in my congregation works as a pharmacist. What is he supposed to do, quit his job? Yeah, we can just leave all health advice to the Governing Body/Faithful and Discreet Slave. After all, they have such a good track record in that department - just refer to the May 22, 1994, issue of Awake! with all the photos on the front cover of the children who put Jehovah/WT/GB first in their lives by actually giving their lives to them by refusing blood transfusion therapy. Yes sir, they have the best health advice you can get.

46

The BEST way to "wake up" a JW

by Phizzy in

we have debated this over many years and in many threads, as all of us have family and/or former friends still in.

it seems that there is no "best" way to wake up a jw, it is as elusive as the "true" religion it seems.. but a comment made by poster "emery" on another thread stood out to me, he/she said :.

"what i have gathered is that most witnesses seem to be in it for emotional reasons.

SAHS

Whenever I bring up things about the WTS to my mom and dad, they always come up with, “Who else is teaching the good news of the Kingdom?” And, regarding “apostates,” they always say, “What do they have to offer? Where are they now? What are they doing now? Complaining, beating their fellow slaves, and making money on books.” This is their standard response.

They fail to realize that JWs, who think they are the only ones promoting the Kingdom of God, are actually quite ineffective at spreading the message and making converts among the earth’s population as a whole. They may be fairly persuasive on an individual level, but they don’t seem to care that the vast majority of humankind (especially the Oriental, Asian, and Islamic lands) are not being reached, and certainly not responding to their message. The mainstream Christian religions, on the other hand, are maintaining a much greater membership population, as their methodology is more effective and appealing in the long run because they use something that has also proved very effective in addiction support groups such as AA: they believe in “attraction rather than promotion”—i.e., making their messages available to everyone to investigate of their own free will as opposed to banging on people’s doors in a show of loyalty to the WTS (a kind of salesmanship) trying to ram it down people’s throats by arguing and denigrating other religions—and using fear to keep people captive.

15

Is there one scripture you like to show JWs and why ?

by Pterist in

2 corinthians 4:4. the wbts like to use 2 corinthians 4:4 frequently.

however, they invariably never complete the section of verse 4, which states "lest they see the radiance of the glorious gospel of christ" .. i ask them what does this mean to them personally ?, my motivation is to draw their attention to exactly what is been hidden by the god of this system of things.

the answer is in verse 6 and 7 "yahweh who said let the light shine out of darkness, has also made the light shine in our hearts to radiate and to make known the glory of god as it shines in the face of christ, however we carry this treasure in vessels of clay, so that this all surpassing power may not be seen as ours, but as gods"!

SAHS

Deuteronomy 18:20-22: `However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’

This takes a bit of the sting out of the fear some might have of sinning against the holy spirit just because of not conforming to/agreeing with the WTS, and, of course, it certainly helps with the indoctrinated fear of being executed at Armageddon. The above passage is a great "natural remedy" for such fear.

42

FEBRUARY 1ST 2013 WT TRACTAZINE!!! LIGHT GETTING BRIGHTER!!!!

by DATA-DOG in

at my last meeting i picked up the new feb 1, 2013 wt.

my first reaction was " is this a joke?

" i said so out loud to the literature servant.

SAHS

tornapart:" Wonder if there's any in the writing department that are 'stuck in' and unable to get out but decide to slip in little things like this? "

That is actually what I'm endeavoring to do now - "slip in little things" into my comments at the meetings, especially the WT study. I was never an elder, ministerial servant, or regular pioneer, but my dad is a well-known elder where I live, and I've been focusing on very subtle little points in my comments to make people think, but very subtle/careful indeed. I'm a born-in, 46 years old now, and the more subtle little things I can mention the better (especially providing some historical insight into some previous "understandings" in JW teachings/dogma, and emphasizing the role of Jesus over any man-made organizational doctrines and rules).

Actually, during one comment I was actually looking at my iPhone 5 on which I had looked up some specific historical teaching of Charles Russell (I forget what it was) which was from this very discussion board! . . . . Well, we're supposed to use such electronic aids now at the kingdom hall, aren't we? I plan to put mine to good use.

21

So basically, it's all for show

by jeremiah18:5-10 in

jw
friends

jw's claim to be god-fearing, faithful, spiritual people with a unique special personal relationship with god (jehovah).. yet, so much of what they do is just fro show, an outward appearance of holiness and faithfulness:.

) shunning- an organization-sanctioned shunning policy publicly "outs" the shunned and puts pressure on members to cary out the shunning.

why is this necessary if they truly have faith in god and that he sees all and nothing is hidden from his view?

SAHS

wasblind:" True Christians don't vote "

And kids in school aren't even allowed to run for class president according to the WTS because they think it would be "part of the world" and involve voting for something other than God's Kingdom. I always thought of this as being rather odd, because having a class president or student body in a school is really just more of an exercise in how the world works - a kind of practical "life skill" preparing the students for the dynamics of the business world and socio-political structure of modern society - but the WTS wants to have us equate it as being tantamount to an actual renouncing of his/her faith by choosing the "world" over God's rule.

The end result has the desired affect of singling out JW students as being different and thus open to ostracism - i.e., putting on a show of pseudo-piety - by this rigid and rather peculiar stand. And not to mention making JW students stand out in the hallway (as I also had to do) during the class morning exercises (national anthem and the Lord's Prayer, at least in my school days). Anything, it seems, to put the JW kids on centre stage as being different.

52

WTS closes/dissolves 435 congregations in 29 countries

by Gayle in

jw
friends

as listed in 2013 yearbook.. yes, most countries have increases in congregations.

most of the countries that have less congregations than last year, show 1 or 2 less.

however, poland shows a dramatic 327 congregations less, from 1,814 (2011) to 1,487. netherlands, 25 less congregations.

SAHS

The analogy to these closed/dissolved congregations I can think of is that of the human body as it is freezing to death. The first thing that happens is the extremities of the hands and feet start cooling first as blood is reduced to try to conserve the temperature of the main core and the head. In such a crisis of reduction, it's the peripherals that get shut down first; i.e., the dwindling congregations have to be "sacrificed" for the benefit of the organization as a whole as members and real estate assets are pooled together to conserve resources.

Expect this to be the current trend, especially in these Internet-savvy lands.