Posts by SAHS

171

New to The Jehovahs Witness Faith and need some help

by jnjburkett in

jw
friends

hello there i am new to the faith and have been studying for about a month.

i am very excited and hungry for the truth and have not missed a meeting or study since the memorial.

we do about 2 bible studies a week.

SAHS

“runForever”: “Why would you be looking for a support group for witnesses if you were just studying?”
Well, maybe – just maybe – “jnjburkett” wanted to investigate whether there are in fact such ‘support groups for witnesses’ so she might check into the actual veracity and social climate of JWs for comparison to what she has been learning from her new studies. To me it seems reasonable for someone new to gather different types of information from a variety of sources and venues so as to be able to discern the whole picture – especially with an organization like the WT which would potentially demand so much of someone’s life and take such a toll on someone’s mental and emotional welfare.

Again, I believe that giving the benefit of the doubt is always the wisest and fairest course.

30

So now those resurrected on Earth can marry?

by zophar in

jw
friends

8-15-14 wt question from readers.

SAHS

“jam”: “They put this in print??” (“Are you for real, ‘Adam was allowed to have sex among all the lower animals?’ ”)

Indeed, they did. Don’t forget, that was from our old friend, Mr. Charles Taze Russell. That Photo Drama of Creation even speculated about eventually living on other planets. All well, what can you expect from a nutty old fellow who was so into pyramidology and numerology. (His wife Maria certainly was not a “satisfied customer,” if you know what I mean. Perhaps that’s why he didn’t really care about the normal human romantic/sexual expression.)

Also, until 1953 the Watchtower believed that Jehovah resided at the center of the universe on the star Alcyone in the cluster known as Pleiades. They taught that because they thought the Great Pyramid in Egypt pointed it out.

Yes, another 100 years of this non-ending “funny” stuff.

171

New to The Jehovahs Witness Faith and need some help

by jnjburkett in

jw
friends

hello there i am new to the faith and have been studying for about a month.

i am very excited and hungry for the truth and have not missed a meeting or study since the memorial.

we do about 2 bible studies a week.

SAHS

To “Shanagirl”: That was quite an interesting excerpt you copied and pasted on page eight of this thread which exposes the many cultic tactics (some subtle, and some not so subtle) employed by the WTS. I especially like this quote near the end of the excerpt: “The Organisation is easy to become involved with, costly to remain in and devastating to leave.” That sure sums it up in a nutshell!

The unfortunate and frustrating thing is that even when a JW is presented with all the evidence (internal and external to their own literature), the result is quite often as you quoted, “Thirdly, even if they win the argument, the JW is still not likely to change his mind.”

30

So now those resurrected on Earth can marry?

by zophar in

jw
friends

8-15-14 wt question from readers.

SAHS

“Vidiot”: “Living forever and never having sex again? With anyone?? EVER??? That's not Paradise. That's Hell.”

Another possibility is that maybe in the earthly resurrection / new system, everyone will have genitals and a sex drive as they do now, but for population control maybe eventually God will command that instead of having normal heterosexual sex with other humans, we will only be allowed to have sex with the animals.

Actually, the GB used to propose that Adam was allowed to have sex with the beasts before Eve was created! Here is the quote: “Before God created anything new, a woman, God left the man free to determine whether there was a suitable companion for him among all the lower animals. He did not oblige the man to go seeking a companion among them, thus requiring the use of much time on the man’s part, but Jehovah God brought various beasts of the earth and flying creatures of the heavens before the man.” – Life Everlasting – In Freedom of the Sons of God, p. 45, par. 22, ©1966 Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. That was in a post about seven years ago on this site, at http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/126142/1/Society-unsure-about-Adams-Sexual-Orientation#.U4OIDxYS9QE.

Also, the WTS surmised that Adam had originally been created with both masculine and feminine qualities! This was published in the really old book Photo Drama of Creation. That book states: “Adam possessed originally in his own person the qualities masculine and feminine which subsequently were divided between him and his wife, when she was taken from his side. – Genesis 2:21-23; 1 Corinthians 11:8.” This is another similar quote from that same book which also mentions the resurrection: “Another suggestion has been offered: Jesus declared that those who attain to that resurrection will neither marry nor be given in marriage. As Adam originally possessed all the qualities of character, masculine and feminine, so humanity, when fully restored to the image and likeness of God, will re-attain perfection of individuality. Sex divisions will then be no more. Earth will be filled with sufficient population. – Luke 20:35, 36.” That was in a post about eleven years ago on this site, at http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/43481/1/Photodrama-of-Creation#.U4OJTRYS9QG.

I guess when it comes to the earthly resurrection, the WTS’ ideas certainly go all over the place!

Some other possibilities I myself thought of are: Maybe God will command only allowing homosexuality instead of heterosexuality. Or, maybe God will allow human sexuality but only with alternatives to actual intercourse. Or, maybe God will allow normal heterosexual intercourse as He does now but somehow make male and female humans completely infertile/barren at a cellular level. Those are just my personal thought experiments. I suppose that sort of personal speculation is okay, but I wouldn’t shoot myself in the foot by actually publishing it in a book!

30

So now those resurrected on Earth can marry?

by zophar in

jw
friends

8-15-14 wt question from readers.

SAHS

“Listener”: “The earthly paradise (TM) has now become a much more happified prospect for all the sheepies. Maybe there will be less JWs declaring themselves anointed.”

That’s a really good point! It’s interesting to see how the GB can be manipulating things behind the scenes. It’s like they’re saying, “Just shut up and pass the bread and wine along to the person next to you, and no nibbling/sipping. Don’t worry, we think you just may get “lucky” (laid) if you make it into the new system.”

171

New to The Jehovahs Witness Faith and need some help

by jnjburkett in

jw
friends

hello there i am new to the faith and have been studying for about a month.

i am very excited and hungry for the truth and have not missed a meeting or study since the memorial.

we do about 2 bible studies a week.

SAHS

To “jnjburkett”:

Glad to see that you have stepped back into the sparring ring (or perhaps the UFC octagon ring), so to speak. I was a bit worried that you might have been scared off by some of the more feisty folks here.

One thing I would suggest is that you jot down and familiarize yourself with a list of some of the more notable and blatant discrepancies and flip-flops of the Watchtower Society (which you can easily obtain from the Web sites already suggested to you). Once you have adequately prepared yourself, mustered up sufficient courage, and discerned the opportune time and favorable circumstances to briefly enumerate that list of major discrepancies and flip-flops, then simply ask whoever is studying with you this question: “How can the supposedly one-and-only true prophet and mouthpiece for Almighty God which is supposedly led by God’s holy spirit, which the Governing Body of the Watchtower organization claims to be itself, have such an extensively and consistently abysmal record such as it does?”

Then ask them, “I know the Watchtower Society keeps using the scripture at Proverbs 4:18, which says, ‘But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter until full daylight’ (RNWT), but how can that be used to justify how a corporate society like the Watchtower can actually keep reversing its doctrines and policy, sometimes several times?” (Some good examples of this are their teachings on whether or not those killed in Sodom and Gomorrah will get a resurrection, and whether alternative military service, organ transplants, or vaccinations are allowed.)

Finally, ask them these two personal questions, “Do you honestly believe that this sounds like it would fit any group or organization which claims to be the absolute one-and-only true prophet and mouthpiece for Almighty God on earth today?,” and “How can the Governing Body of the Watchtower corporation in Brooklyn, New York rightly claim to actually be the sole mediator between God and an anointed remnant on earth today?”

Those above questions are far from trivial! They are, in fact, extremely important. And I believe that they most succinctly and poignantly put all of this in perspective.

Take care, “jnjburkett.” I wish you the very best in your search for real truth.

35

What On Earth Makes The Watchtower Organization Think That Inactive Ones a Would Ever Want To Go Back To The Vomit?

by minimus in

jw
friends

do they actually believe that if they tell you that you are "missed", that you will desire to return to the sheepfold?

.

SAHS

“blondie”: “It's time to get out of punching range and stay there.”

That really nails it on the head. People in the WTS are really in an abusive relationship every much so as a woman staying with a violent wife-beater.

“LongHairGal”: “People who go back to the religion are usually missing loved-ones who are there or they miss a social network of sorts.”

That’s really it in a nutshell. It’s a man-made organization, and all they really have to offer to keep people in is human-related. That and fear they can instill of displeasing the GB, which is really tantamount to “Jehovah,” and not surviving the big-A. It’s so obviously all about religiosity and not spirituality!

171

New to The Jehovahs Witness Faith and need some help

by jnjburkett in

jw
friends

hello there i am new to the faith and have been studying for about a month.

i am very excited and hungry for the truth and have not missed a meeting or study since the memorial.

we do about 2 bible studies a week.

SAHS

In my humble opinion, I believe that these three posts are the most reasonable and compassionate of them all:

“KateWild”: “I think this really shows she is telling the truth, it's such an old mag and I would say that the rule about this is inconsistent around the globe, just like the Malawi / Mexico incident. Most JWs who want to go along to the YMCA, don't do a CD-ROM search to see if it's okay.”

“notjustyet”: “What did I learn from this thread? I learned not to be quick in calling "troll" at the expense of scaring away a person who came to this site for answers about the WTBTS/Jw. . . . There are so many variables that could happen in the future that could make a person "look" like a troll but in reality are not. A person could have misunderstood what was said, the person that share story X could have been lying, the story could be true and would be dealt with on a Judicial Committee later, etc etc, . . . I hate seeing a person come here and get pounced on in a free for all with everyone jumping in sharing stories.”

“rebel8”: “There are jws who do not know about the Y restriction. And this lady is STUDYING. Jeez people, calling her names?”

Me personally, I do not know all the facts of jnjburkett’s situation or that of her JW acquaintances (and neither do any of you all), but all that aside, I can only say this: Let’s just be fair and give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and ‘treat them as we would want to be treated.’ (What famous person said that? . . . . Oh yah, the same person known for stating the “Golden Rule.”)

I was actually a born-in JW (since 1966), and I myself have observed quite a gamut of variety in what actually is, and what is “supposed to be,” allowed among the JWs. I for one have been an active member of Alcoholics Anonymous (“AA”) for quite some years. (I started going to AA meetings around 1988, but I have gone “in and out” a few times. I’m currently attending AA pretty much daily, and have been in detox and also in a residential treatment facility for 21 days.) The elders in all my judicial committee hearings (yes, all about drinking alcohol) all thought that getting “professional” help in AA was actually a good idea, even though that 12-step program is God-based/spiritual-based and originally began as a definite Christian group (the “Oxford Group”). I even join in saying the Lord’s Prayer. That just goes to illustrate how in the whole grand scheme of things nothing is really as black-and-white and universally consistent as one might think – even in JW land.

30

So now those resurrected on Earth can marry?

by zophar in

jw
friends

8-15-14 wt question from readers.

SAHS

Personally, I think that it just makes sense that Jesus would have been referring to the heavenly resurrection, because the whole idea behind him coming to earth at that time was to gather the congregation of anointed Christians (the “little flock”), which would be formally established at Pentecost in 33 C.E. That’s what Jesus’ disciples were supposed to be looking forward to. The “great crowd” of “other sheep” wasn’t mentioned until the apostle John wrote about it later in his book of Revelation around 96-98 C.E. The “Jonadab class” of “other sheep” wasn’t even identified by the WTS until 1935.

So, I can’t imagine Jesus talking about the earthly resurrection at that time when he was talking to the Sadducees. That wouldn’t have fit in with this heavenly kingdom theme and probably would have just confused things.

As for the earthly resurrection, that would occur in the “new system of things,” which I understand is supposed to be a time eventually leading to the restoration of God’s original purpose for humans on the earth – which was to be fruitful and fill the earth (multiply) and enjoy everlasting life as married couples on a Paradise earth. Now, I can understand that eventually earth’s expanding population would have to reach a limit, but it just seems basically cruel and unnatural (perverted) for there to be people living single and denied natural affection and intimacy with a mate of the opposite sex for an eternity (while always observing the animals getting to enjoy humping each other, which are supposed to be lower life forms than humans).

The no-marriage, no-sex theory regarding the earthly Paradise just doesn’t make any sense at all. I mean, what would be the point?

69

QFR August 15, 2014 - Resurrection and Marriage

by wisdomfrombelow in

the article addressed luke 20:34-36 and now they finally admit jesus could have been referring to the heavenly resurrection.

they said "put simply, the answer is that we cannot say" which is surprising because they have something to say about everything.

perhaps all the old people who are waiting the new world as widow and widowers want to know if they have a chance to be reunited with their dead loved one.

SAHS

“Pistoff”: “. . . they assume Jesus was talking about earthly, no heavenly, no earthly, no heavenly.”

That’s about it, literally. So much for the GB being the one-and-only true mouthpiece/prophet for Almighty God! They can’t seem to get anything clarified – for over 100 years.

Personally, I think that it just makes sense that Jesus would have been referring to the heavenly resurrection, because the whole idea behind him coming to earth at that time was to gather the congregation of anointed Christians (the “little flock”), which would be formally established at Pentecost in 33 C.E. That’s what Jesus’ disciples were supposed to be looking forward to. The “great crowd” of “other sheep” wasn’t mentioned until the apostle John wrote about it later in his book of Revelation around 96-98 C.E. The “Jonadab class” of “other sheep” wasn’t even identified by the WTS until 1935.

So, I can’t imagine Jesus talking about the earthly resurrection at that time when he was talking to the Sadducees. That wouldn’t have fit in with this heavenly kingdom theme and probably would have just confused things.

As for the earthly resurrection, that would occur in the “new system of things,” which I understand is supposed to be a time eventually leading to the restoration of God’s original purpose for humans on the earth – which was to be fruitful and fill the earth (multiply) and enjoy everlasting life as married couples on a Paradise earth. Now, I can understand that eventually earth’s expanding population would have to reach a limit, but it just seems basically cruel and unnatural (perverted) for there to be people living single and denied natural affection and intimacy with a mate of the opposite sex for an eternity (while always observing the animals getting to enjoy humping each other, which are supposed to be lower life forms than humans).

The no-marriage, no-sex theory regarding the earthly Paradise just doesn’t make any sense at all. I mean, what would be the point?