i've spoken privately with some witnesses over the past couple weeks and it caused me to think about an analogy.
i turn to totalitarian examples because that's the basic structure of the 'truth'.. as nazi germany encountered defeat, several things happened.
some higher ups sought to escape into surrender in the west because they realized defeat was inevitable.
“LostGeneration”: “They cater to dependent thinkers, people who want their thinking done for them. Probably 30% of the population falls into this category . . .”
That’s probably true. It’s probably more a matter of smoke and mirrors than bullets and barbed wire. Sometimes the worst kind of concentration camps are the ones which people allow to be created and perpetuated within their own mind. (Mind control is a sneaky and nasty business.)
“smiddy”: “Some convention sights are badge only entry. . . . Could you verify that statement for me please?”
I am guessing that this might be implemented only for the sites hosting the international district conventions just to have some kind of verification process to encourage only those invited to attend. I have never heard of any other kind of actual badge check anywhere at all.
just saying , my 2 cents worth .
if they have an agenda it will be revealed in a short time , let them play it out .. however , some genuine first posters can be put off by somebody jumping the gun and attacking them .. please give the first posters time to get to know this site.. smiddy.
To “smiddy”:
This is certainly an excellent and most timely topic! I too have felt quite indignant and incensed at the way some new posters have been treated, at least by some. People start coming here for a reason, and I believe that the vast majority would be coming here to get some real answers and candid insight into the WT organization which they wouldn’t be able to otherwise.
Certainly I believe that everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt – after all, that’s the Golden Rule, right? (You know, the “do unto others” thing?) A little empathy and dignity is always the right thing to do – no matter what a person’s status or standing.
And if hypothetically someone did come on here as a full-fledged “troll” – I don’t care whether it’s of the garden variety apologist or someone on the service desk at Brooklyn Bethel or even one of the governing body members – it still really wouldn’t matter because, like “Slidin Fast” said, “Any information or opinions that are based on a false premise or unproven accusations . . . are questioned, examined and dissected.” So in the end, it all comes out in the wash. And as with the widely-known peer-review process in the scientific community, anyone can submit their theory (or premise) but it must pass through the rigorous gauntlet of inspection and verification. That’s only fair, as long as it’s done in a dignified and respectful manner.
Like “ABibleStudent” said, “Let other readers make up their own minds about what a poster is or is not without labeling them.” That’s really the safest route to take . . . and often ends up saving someone from having to chow down on a big portion of “humble pie!”
hello there i am new to the faith and have been studying for about a month.
i am very excited and hungry for the truth and have not missed a meeting or study since the memorial.
we do about 2 bible studies a week.
“runForever”: “Why would you be looking for a support group for witnesses if you were just studying?”
Well, maybe – just maybe – “jnjburkett” wanted to investigate whether there are in fact such ‘support groups for witnesses’ so she might check into the actual veracity and social climate of JWs for comparison to what she has been learning from her new studies. To me it seems reasonable for someone new to gather different types of information from a variety of sources and venues so as to be able to discern the whole picture – especially with an organization like the WT which would potentially demand so much of someone’s life and take such a toll on someone’s mental and emotional welfare.
Again, I believe that giving the benefit of the doubt is always the wisest and fairest course.
“jam”: “They put this in print??” (“Are you for real, ‘Adam was allowed to have sex among all the lower animals?’ ”)
Indeed, they did. Don’t forget, that was from our old friend, Mr. Charles Taze Russell. That Photo Drama of Creation even speculated about eventually living on other planets. All well, what can you expect from a nutty old fellow who was so into pyramidology and numerology. (His wife Maria certainly was not a “satisfied customer,” if you know what I mean. Perhaps that’s why he didn’t really care about the normal human romantic/sexual expression.)
Also, until 1953 the Watchtower believed that Jehovah resided at the center of the universe on the star Alcyone in the cluster known as Pleiades. They taught that because they thought the Great Pyramid in Egypt pointed it out.
Yes, another 100 years of this non-ending “funny” stuff.
hello there i am new to the faith and have been studying for about a month.
i am very excited and hungry for the truth and have not missed a meeting or study since the memorial.
we do about 2 bible studies a week.
To “Shanagirl”: That was quite an interesting excerpt you copied and pasted on page eight of this thread which exposes the many cultic tactics (some subtle, and some not so subtle) employed by the WTS. I especially like this quote near the end of the excerpt: “The Organisation is easy to become involved with, costly to remain in and devastating to leave.” That sure sums it up in a nutshell!
The unfortunate and frustrating thing is that even when a JW is presented with all the evidence (internal and external to their own literature), the result is quite often as you quoted, “Thirdly, even if they win the argument, the JW is still not likely to change his mind.”
“Vidiot”: “Living forever and never having sex again? With anyone?? EVER??? That's not Paradise. That's Hell.”
Another possibility is that maybe in the earthly resurrection / new system, everyone will have genitals and a sex drive as they do now, but for population control maybe eventually God will command that instead of having normal heterosexual sex with other humans, we will only be allowed to have sex with the animals.
Actually, the GB used to propose that Adam was allowed to have sex with the beasts before Eve was created! Here is the quote: “Before God created anything new, a woman, God left the man free to determine whether there was a suitable companion for him among all the lower animals. He did not oblige the man to go seeking a companion among them, thus requiring the use of much time on the man’s part, but Jehovah God brought various beasts of the earth and flying creatures of the heavens before the man.” – Life Everlasting – In Freedom of the Sons of God, p. 45, par. 22, ©1966 Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. That was in a post about seven years ago on this site, at http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/126142/1/Society-unsure-about-Adams-Sexual-Orientation#.U4OIDxYS9QE.
Also, the WTS surmised that Adam had originally been created with both masculine and feminine qualities! This was published in the really old book Photo Drama of Creation. That book states: “Adam possessed originally in his own person the qualities masculine and feminine which subsequently were divided between him and his wife, when she was taken from his side. – Genesis 2:21-23; 1 Corinthians 11:8.” This is another similar quote from that same book which also mentions the resurrection: “Another suggestion has been offered: Jesus declared that those who attain to that resurrection will neither marry nor be given in marriage. As Adam originally possessed all the qualities of character, masculine and feminine, so humanity, when fully restored to the image and likeness of God, will re-attain perfection of individuality. Sex divisions will then be no more. Earth will be filled with sufficient population. – Luke 20:35, 36.” That was in a post about eleven years ago on this site, at http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/43481/1/Photodrama-of-Creation#.U4OJTRYS9QG.
I guess when it comes to the earthly resurrection, the WTS’ ideas certainly go all over the place!
Some other possibilities I myself thought of are: Maybe God will command only allowing homosexuality instead of heterosexuality. Or, maybe God will allow human sexuality but only with alternatives to actual intercourse. Or, maybe God will allow normal heterosexual intercourse as He does now but somehow make male and female humans completely infertile/barren at a cellular level. Those are just my personal thought experiments. I suppose that sort of personal speculation is okay, but I wouldn’t shoot myself in the foot by actually publishing it in a book!
“Listener”: “The earthly paradise (TM) has now become a much more happified prospect for all the sheepies. Maybe there will be less JWs declaring themselves anointed.”
That’s a really good point! It’s interesting to see how the GB can be manipulating things behind the scenes. It’s like they’re saying, “Just shut up and pass the bread and wine along to the person next to you, and no nibbling/sipping. Don’t worry, we think you just may get “lucky” (laid) if you make it into the new system.”
hello there i am new to the faith and have been studying for about a month.
i am very excited and hungry for the truth and have not missed a meeting or study since the memorial.
we do about 2 bible studies a week.
To “jnjburkett”:
Glad to see that you have stepped back into the sparring ring (or perhaps the UFC octagon ring), so to speak. I was a bit worried that you might have been scared off by some of the more feisty folks here.
One thing I would suggest is that you jot down and familiarize yourself with a list of some of the more notable and blatant discrepancies and flip-flops of the Watchtower Society (which you can easily obtain from the Web sites already suggested to you). Once you have adequately prepared yourself, mustered up sufficient courage, and discerned the opportune time and favorable circumstances to briefly enumerate that list of major discrepancies and flip-flops, then simply ask whoever is studying with you this question: “How can the supposedly one-and-only true prophet and mouthpiece for Almighty God which is supposedly led by God’s holy spirit, which the Governing Body of the Watchtower organization claims to be itself, have such an extensively and consistently abysmal record such as it does?”
Then ask them, “I know the Watchtower Society keeps using the scripture at Proverbs 4:18, which says, ‘But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter until full daylight’ (RNWT), but how can that be used to justify how a corporate society like the Watchtower can actually keep reversing its doctrines and policy, sometimes several times?” (Some good examples of this are their teachings on whether or not those killed in Sodom and Gomorrah will get a resurrection, and whether alternative military service, organ transplants, or vaccinations are allowed.)
Finally, ask them these two personal questions, “Do you honestly believe that this sounds like it would fit any group or organization which claims to be the absolute one-and-only true prophet and mouthpiece for Almighty God on earth today?,” and “How can the Governing Body of the Watchtower corporation in Brooklyn, New York rightly claim to actually be the sole mediator between God and an anointed remnant on earth today?”
Those above questions are far from trivial! They are, in fact, extremely important. And I believe that they most succinctly and poignantly put all of this in perspective.
Take care, “jnjburkett.” I wish you the very best in your search for real truth.
do they actually believe that if they tell you that you are "missed", that you will desire to return to the sheepfold?
.
“blondie”: “It's time to get out of punching range and stay there.”
That really nails it on the head. People in the WTS are really in an abusive relationship every much so as a woman staying with a violent wife-beater.
“LongHairGal”: “People who go back to the religion are usually missing loved-ones who are there or they miss a social network of sorts.”
That’s really it in a nutshell. It’s a man-made organization, and all they really have to offer to keep people in is human-related. That and fear they can instill of displeasing the GB, which is really tantamount to “Jehovah,” and not surviving the big-A. It’s so obviously all about religiosity and not spirituality!
