SAHS

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Posts by SAHS

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  38

  2 Faced JWs and Thanksgiving

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many jws enjoy turkey on thanksgiving day and are often discreet about their indulgences.

  why be two faced?

  why try to excuse it?.

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  SAHS

  “Witness 007”: “They have nothing to be thankful for.”

  Well, I wouldn’t say that. Every year JWs get to stare at a plate of dried-out crackers and a glass of cheap wine to remind them how unworthy they are of being called “God’s children” (at least not for another thousand years or so) or having Jesus as their mediator; that is, unlike the elite important class, the anointed remnant of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in New York. And they get to dress up in suits and ties and formal dresses yet one more night of the year. To quote a line by Chevy Chase playing Clark Griswold in the 1983 movie Vacation, “We’re all gonna have so much f^cking fun we’re gonna need plastic surgery to remove our goddamn smiles! You’ll be whistling ‘Zip-A-Dee Doo-Dah’ out of your assholes!”

  “Quarterback”: “But, if the Jews start eating bacon, what is this world coming to?”

  That’s true. After all, the JWs are much more Jewish than any Christians.
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  8

  How and why?

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  once upon a time, there was a world in flux, undergoing change and diversity at an imperceptible pace.

  only with hindsight was it possible to catalogue the various paths being born that led to a word and humanity so very different one hundred years later than compared to any time in the homo sapiens past.. technology, warfare, the universe, the discovery of atoms... born in stars, all things forced upon the fragile minds of mortals in a short period of time.. these overwhelming changes led to the birth of many things, including comforts and hopes that were far to readily available to grasp ahold of.

  as the founders of these comforts could not themselves grasp the world they found the self in, they sought the worlds they knew, the past, 4000 years in the past......the technicalities and truths were to be ironed out at another time, a time never reached.. some had no choice in the matter, the grasping was done by their parents, their grandparents, their great grandparents.....when the time came for personal analysis, not only had they inherited comfort but great, great fears.

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  SAHS

  “snare&racket”: “. . . when the time came for personal analysis, not only had they inherited comfort but great, great fears. They found they had lost not only freedom of thought and question but also autonomy itself, . . . But now we move toward a new era, . . . An age of information where all are free to seek knowledge and all knowledge is seek-able and free, not even requiring a voluntary donation. . . . Truth or comfort?”

  An interesting analysis, for sure. I think that the ability to search for objective truth and accept wherever that leads, in a mindful and pragmatic way, does, in fact, bring comfort in itself. Trying to hang on to and maintain old delusions doesn’t really bring comfort in the long run because that only fosters dissonance – and frustration.

  I think that “nice” little fables (“allegories”) can have some positive or comforting effect on people, especially the very young, such as Walt Disney classics (remember that song, “When you wish upon a star”?) or Santa Claus (What do you want for Christmas, Billy?), etc. However, if an intelligent adult were to keep waiting for star wishes to come true or expecting the drunken old Santa Claus from the local shopping mall to actually drive to his house in the wee hours of December 25th morning and drop off a new 80-inch flat screen TV while knowing full well deep in his subconscious that it is all simply untrue, then instead of any actual comfort he could only expect a good dose of dissonance and frustration. (Not that too many intelligent adults would go line up and sit on Santa’s lap to ask for a big TV – that would be rather delusional and cheeky, for sure . . . not to mention a possible free pass to the local psyche ward for some professional observation.) While little kids might possibly expect a flat screen TV or a PlayStation 4 or a pony or whatever, the big intelligent adults know what they must to do to actually attain the things they want by themselves; i.e., work their asses off and save (or at least build up a big credit line account – whatever does the trick).

  So, to answer the original poster’s question “Truth or comfort?,” I would say that those two things do not have to be mutually exclusive. There is no reason they can’t properly and sincerely fit together – i.e., with a little mindfulness you can have both!
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  38

  2 Faced JWs and Thanksgiving

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many jws enjoy turkey on thanksgiving day and are often discreet about their indulgences.

  why be two faced?

  why try to excuse it?.

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  SAHS

  “SafeAtHome”: “I know they would bring up pagan connections with Christmas and Easter, but what would be the argument about Thanksgiving or Mother's Day or Father's Day...days that don't have a religious celebration connected with them.”

  The real truth is that the GB of the WTS doesn’t so much care about religious or pagan origins of things, but what they do have a problem with is anything – such as a person’s birthday or Mother’s/Father’s Day – that they see as elevating an individual on a pedestal, even for one day. No, the GB would rather everyone do that for themselves every day. (I’m just waiting till they come out with GB bobbleheads for their followers to put on their car dashboards.)
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  28

  We're not dealing with sincere anointed who genuinely believe their teachings but scam artists

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  looking at all the doctrinal teachings over the last five years, it's almost impossible for any person of conscience who originated such doctrine to do a complete u-turn and change it when the passage of time has proved beyond doubt that doctrine is no longer credible.. i say this with reference to the generation of 1914. they were so sure.

  it was part of the awake!

  masthead for decades that those who saw the events of 1914 would also see the great tribulation.. .

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  SAHS

  “truthseeker”: “Either they are fooling themselves OR they are perpetuating a SCAM on the body of believers.”

  I think that they are fooling and scamming themselves on a deeply subconscious level, but on another level they are operating in cognitive dissonance as they try to perpetuate and craftily sculpt the lies. It seems that, as a whole, the GB is struggling to keep up with itself. It is like a criminal who deep down knows he has committed a serious crime but keeps reinventing and reaffirming to others and himself a lie – a sort of hopeless “fake it ’till you make it” strategy; or, more like a “fake it ’till you believe it yourself (or at least try to believe it yourself)” strategy.

  “truthseeker”: “. . . chronology has backed them in a corner, and they have no way out except to change the teaching, but in doing so they have lost credibility among themselves and the flock . . .”

  Indeed!

  “flipper”: “For the money and the power. And the control.”

  Those defects of human character really come through, don’t they!
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  4

  A short list of inconsistencies

  by All for show in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone have a short list of inconsistencies or can write some out for me, from both the bible and wt doctrine.

  things such as: jobs test and noah's ark not being enough for gods sovereignty, why not just let adam and eve die without having children, tower of babel after the flood, jws can die at armageddon yet even satan gets more time.

  the ultimate stopper for me is when people say its about jehovahs kingdom and sovereignty and we preach to save the wicked.

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  SAHS

  To: “All for show”:

  Aside from Biblical inconsistencies you mentioned regarding Adam and Eve, Noah, and Job, if you want a most excellent comprehensive list of all the inconsistencies of the Watchtower Society, I’ve found that you can’t do any better than the research work called “Spiritual Food At the Proper Time” at freeminds.org. It contains little excerpts directly from the Watchtower literature in chronological order, along with the occasional brief yet concise explanatory comments. You will find it extremely useful as a research tool. That was really the thing that did if for me around 15 years ago. It makes is so extremely obvious that we are dealing with a dishonest and arrogant cult! Below are the links to this fine information:

  http://www.freeminds.org/history/key.htm

  http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm

  http://www.freeminds.org/history/part2.htm

  http://www.freeminds.org/history/part3.htm

  http://www.freeminds.org/history/part4.htm
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  70

  Feeling sad over a wasted life in watchtower

  by wannaexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's been 12 years since i first read ray franz's books and the scales came off my eyes.

  by that time i was in my forties.. since 2002 i went back to school and have worked with 3 very professional organizations.

  but my biological clock is ticking away and while my peers are looking forward to retirement, i am only beginning.

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  SAHS

  “wannaexit”: “While my peers are looking forward to retirement, I am only beginning.”

  I can certainly relate to that. I thought that I would be married long ago, but according to the WTS I would have to be a ministerial servant in order to be worthy of marrying a woman. That’s why I say, retrain a lawyer and at least know what your legal options are regarding this most destructive cult.
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  15

  What have you learned, Terry, from TEN YEARS on this discussion board?

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  1. it's not all about me.. each of us has to grow up our own way at our own pace.

  when we regain our balance we can be of help to other people.

  life doesn't.

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  SAHS

  “Terry”: “JW's think "accurate knowledge" is an excuse for lip-service kinds of love. But, it is an awfully empty and cold substitute.”

  JWs really don’t know the meaning of “love.” Their idea of “love” is just tantamount to “towing the [party] line.”

  “Terry”: “Intellectual honesty means you are WILLING to be WRONG if facts and evidence go against your cherished beliefs and opinions.”

  What always strikes me is the fact that the WTS has never actually come out and apologized for its many careless blunders; i.e., 1925, 1975, as well as “alternative military service” (you may be familiar with that), organ transplants, etc.

  “Terry”: “We are soooooo comfortable allowing the "other" to tell us what is "good" and bad.”

  Good point. It’s interesting that according to Sigmund Freud, the religious idea of God is, in fact, just a manifestation of the innate and subconscious need for a father figure.

  Unfortunately, religion is responsible for a lot of that “negativity,” which is really nothing more than a manifestation of the defects of character common to humanity; i.e., greed, power, and fear.
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  35

  Hello!

  by mikeypants in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  wanted to say hello to you all.

  i am new to the forum and just wanted to introduce myself.

  i was raised a witness, never baptized (yay) and am married to a lovely baptized witness of jehovah.. i had been trying to get back into it due to both our families being j dbs but just never could get it into my heart.

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  SAHS

  To “mikeypants”: Welcome to the Board! First of all, it’s a good thing that you were never baptized. My best friend was never baptized and thus has sort of fallen through the cracks. Stay away from that JW “holy water” at all costs.

  “My sister called an elder friend of hers and told him are evil plans. He of course contacted my wife and tried to talk her our of marrying the devil.”

  “skeeter1”: “The elders wouldn't do it.”

  Guys, if I were you, I would have a free consultation with a lawyer to weigh my legal options in dealing with this blatant attempt at coercion. It should really be considered unacceptable to use marriage as a bargaining tool to further a manmade “religion.”

  “mikeypants”: “. . . the Awake mag from 1994 with children on the cover who died for listening to the GB freaks.”

  That particular issue of Awake! really struck a nerve with me, as well as a huge number of others, as being most distasteful and offensive! That should be an enormous red flag to anyone!
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  32

  Jehovah's Witnesses--- A Religion About Nothing

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  they say that seinfeld was a tv program about nothing.

  in the end, it was all silliness.. this religion is inconsequential in the big scheme of things.

  it's stupid.. .

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  SAHS

  “stuckinarut2”: “Hey SAHS, I'm begin doubting you, but where did you get the 36% figure of bornins remaining? I would love to use this stat in casual chats with witnesses....”

  “Besides me, at least 75% of the kids I grew up with in the congregation are out – for good. Many of these were good kids too.” – http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/young-ones-leaving.php

  Also, search for the occurrences of the word “leave” in the following Web page:

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php

  There’s your answer, bud.
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  32

  Jehovah's Witnesses--- A Religion About Nothing

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  they say that seinfeld was a tv program about nothing.

  in the end, it was all silliness.. this religion is inconsequential in the big scheme of things.

  it's stupid.. .

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  SAHS

  “DesirousOfChange”: “All JWs have been told (by HQ) is that they are the fastest growing religion, . . . they the "little one" that will become a thousand, . . . only they evangelize over 1 BILLION hours, . . .”

  Well, actually any supposed “increase” is primarily just the result of the birthrate of born-ins. The WTS is known for its “clever” manipulation of statistics, and they don’t exactly advertise the throngs either slipping out the back door (fading) or parading right out the front door (disassociating). Don’t forget: only 36% of born-ins remain in the cult. (Gee, I wonder why. )

  “Iown Mylife”: “Just be really nice to people and visit them and show interest in their life stories, then they will feel obligated to go along with what you want, which is to give money, and find other people to give money, to the org which claims to represent the Creator of the Universe.”

  In relation to any standard business model, this would be called a “pyramid scheme,” which is understandably an illegal form of exploitation. However, unfortunately, as it is classified as a “religion,” thus enjoying the protection of “ecclesiastical privilege” under the secular laws, including tax-free status, it can effectively get away with what amounts to a global pyramid scheme. And they don’t even have to pay their workers any salary. With that and the power they have to threaten and execute disfellowshippings, I’d say that they have a pretty good thing going. . . . at least while operating in such a tolerant capitalist system – and they milk it for all it’s worth!