Well, whenever they pass around those survey slips on which you’re supposed to write in an amount you pledge to donate when they announce a need to cover specific congregation expenses, I always conscientiously fill it in and submit it anonymously . . . . with a big fat ZERO! I’ve voted with my pocketbook, and I let them know it!
Posts by SAHS
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24as long as shunning continues donations will be slow
by poopie inone of the reasons the watchtower is having problems with donations is because they have refuse to let go of wholesale across the board shunning.
the average publisher is sick of it and jehovah is withholding his full blessing.
when you do not show love to fellow humans you run the risk of not being able to show love which i'm turn has a direct relationship to your joy in turn if your not happy your not motivated to donate lots of money to and arrangement you perceive as unloving all you bethel lurkers convey this message to bro letters and rest of gb stop trying to convince fair minded people to support unloving shunning.
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62
Hello, just introducing myself
by Miss Behaving ini've just signed up two days ago, but i've been lurking for about a year and a half.
here's my story if you're interested:.
my parents converted when they were in their first semester of college.
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SAHS
Welcome to the board, “Miss Behaving”! It’s always good to see more and more people waking up to the real facts behind the Watchtower organization. I too am a born-in. I’ve been living in a strongly JW family since 1966, and I’m actually still stuck in it living with my folks. (Long story.)
Knowledge is certainly power. Keep a bird’s-eye-view perspective so you can see the entire forest as a whole from afar. The more you research the Watchtower organization, the more it becomes painfully obvious that it’s nothing more than a power-hungry, self-serving man-made outfit which is no more inspired than my foot!
It’s important that people such as ourselves having had such intense involvement with an undue-influence, high-control group like the JWs continue to benefit from therapy, because the after effects are not something that can just go away too quickly. This very discussion board was the thing that finally allowed me to wake up and confirm that I had indeed been raised in a cult. Keep gathering different objective perspectives, and make sure you don’t just accept any teachings by man, especially of a religious nature. Remember: religiosity is not the same thing as spirituality.
Take care, and best wishes for your personal journey of discovery.
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24
I SAT THROUGH TODAYS WT STUDY WITH A CHEEZER! !
by brandnew inmay 10th, the whole study was about covering up their mistakes, and putting it off on "recent refinements of understandings".. you could just look at the elder on stage and know he was not feelin this study.. when a neewbie answered and said" lots of unexpected changes are happening" i about fell outta my seat !
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SAHS
“under the radar”: “That said, I don't really have a problem with the Society (or any religious group) changing their interpretation of various passages and prophecies, as long as they clearly announce that it is a change. I could actually respect a group that frankly admitted they were wrong before and explained why they believe they have it right now. You can always chalk it up to "further research and reflection" or more related information coming to light.”
I can maybe understand having to smooth over some small details of semantics on trivial matters, but when it comes to changing the very end from 1914 to 1915 and then back to 1914 but as the beginning of the Lord’s Day; then deliberately setting up significant dates supposedly of Armageddon, especially 1925 and 1975; then changing the whole structure and meaning of Jesus’ end-time parables, such as the separating of the sheep and goats, and the wise and foolish virgins; and then, more of late, changing the very identity of the faithful and discreet slave itself and its fundamental role in the kingdom arrangement, . . . . well, that’s a bit much, . . . . especially for a small handful of men claiming to actually be God’s one-and-only representative mouthpiece in all the whole world, solely led by God’s holy spirit! Ya, I would say that is a bit much indeed.
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I SAT THROUGH TODAYS WT STUDY WITH A CHEEZER! !
by brandnew inmay 10th, the whole study was about covering up their mistakes, and putting it off on "recent refinements of understandings".. you could just look at the elder on stage and know he was not feelin this study.. when a neewbie answered and said" lots of unexpected changes are happening" i about fell outta my seat !
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SAHS
The masthead on The Watchtower should just say something like:
“Do not adjust your set. We’re currently experiencing technical difficulties. We’re working on whatever damage control we can come up with now. Please don’t leave us. (And don’t forget to donate!)”
The color scheme on the front cover should incorporate a colorful test pattern, and maybe a cartoon icon of a circus clown.
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Ode to Yaweh
by stuckinarut2 inhere is a very thought provoking clip:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mhxbqwaf7a&list=pl1ce5d4a0e35e651c.
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SAHS
I rather enjoyed that! Kind of puts things in perspective, doesn’t it.
The more I learn about the scientific perspective, such as anthropology, cosmology, quantum physics, psychology, etc. (well, at least from watching those well-done scientific documentaries), the more it becomes so painfully obvious that religion is just a manifestation of primal superstition mixed with a hefty dose of common human defects of character – i.e., it’s all contrived and conveniently sculpted by . . . . people – ordinary, flesh-and-blood, mammalian, primate people!
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My "Leaving" Letter
by lambsbottom inthrough what i have learned from reading bro.
russell's writings about the ransom for all, coupled with the blood issue, i feel the need to let my friends know that i am making a stand for truth.
i could have lost my wife to the blood issue during pregnancy.
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SAHS
Hi “lambsbottom.” I must say that I respect your courage and personal integrity in wanting to submit a formal DA letter. It isn’t for everybody, but if you don’t mind being automatically shunned (at least in theory by most), along with all that entails, then I would say do it. And for all those well-meaning folks here who suggest not doing it at all costs, don’t forget that if it weren’t for those brave XJWs such as Raymond Franz, M. James Penton, Carl Olof Jonsson, William Schnell, etc. “coming out” and publically showing their decision to leave through publishing their own books, then the benefits to their readership in being able to examine the evidence of such candid and poignant exposés would never have been. All those people who were subsequently helped to examine the real facts about the WTS (TTATT) would have been kept in the dark and continuing to wear themselves out on that damn hampster wheel. And that would have been a shame – wouldn’t it? -
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Why doe New light tick me off???? Next 2 weeks WT Studies
by zophar inif you have been a jw for 20+ years you may remember that the wt went into great detail on different illustrations that jesus used and the "type/anti-type" ridiculous explanations.
remember the revelation book and how those obscure jw conventions of the past pictured big things in heaven and the opening of seals?
anyway, the wt lessons for the next two weeks do two big things for me.
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SAHS
“smiddy”: “The majority of Jehovah Witnesses seem to have average to low education standards and of course their are others with higher education in their ranks. However, could this statement have a bearing on the fact?”
That’s a good question. I’ve just read a couple of books by Steven Hassan, who had held a significant position in the Unification Church, also know as the “Moonies,” and apparently such cults recruit people with average or greater intelligence. Notice a couple of his comments from his latest book, Combatting Cult Mind Control:
“The popular view of cults is that they prey on the disaffected and the vulnerable—losers, loners, outcasts, and people who simply don’t fit in. But the truth is very different. In fact, most cult recruits are normal people with ordinary backgrounds—and many are highly intelligent.” (p. 39)
“Many cults deliberately seek out people who are intelligent, talented, and successful. As a result, its members are often powerfully persuasive and seductive to newcomers.” (p.87)
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556
The Watchtower are Right About Blood...
by cofty in... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.
it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.
they take pride in obedience.
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SAHS
“EdenOne”: “The case of Jonathan and his men is interesting because it demonstrated a gray area - just how much time should one wait after slaughtering an animal before one could assume it had bled enough to be considered kosher? Some, like Saul, thought not enough time had passed. Others had a more liberal approach, interpreting the Law in a way that letting some blood to be poured into the ground was enough to respect the spirit of the Law. Eventually this interpretation prevailed, and Jonathan and his men not only weren't executed, no mention is made that they became "unclean".”
That brings up quite an interesting point: Just how much blood needed to be poured out, and just how soon after slaughtering did it have to be poured out? Here’s a little analogy: Some years ago I observed an old brother supposedly of the anointed remnant (since deceased) partaking of the emblems at the Memorial. I clearly remember him partaking of the wine, as he was standing on the platform at the time, as I think he was asked to give the prayer over that particular part of the observance. Anyway, the point is that, like all the other anointed partakers, he just took a good sip or two, and that was sufficiently enough to accomplish the act of publicly taking that emblem. Now, he didn’t compulsively suck every last little drop from the glass and then drink another glass or two (he wasn’t Franklin Rutherford!), and he didn’t have to, as just a sip or two was sufficient – that is, sufficient to “respect the spirit of” the act being performed.
Now, how does this relate to the necessary requirements under the ancient Mosaic Law regarding the sanctity of blood? Simple. In pouring out just a little token amount of blood – at least when that option would have been available as with an animal having been freshly slaughtered and able to have been bled before the heart stopped pumping and the blood started to coagulate – and, similarly, in the case of an anointed taking just a sip of the Memorial wine, in both those examples, what would be required as a “sufficient” requirement to effect observing and respecting “the spirit of,” or the “essence” of, the law or principle of the occasions would be a simple token gesture.
It just makes reasonable sense – not every little drop nor absolutely immediately would be required, but, simply, just to pour out whatever small quantity of blood that would be considered a token gesture of respect for “the spirit of the Law,” at least in the case of an animal killed recently enough to be physically able to be bled at the time. After all, you would think that a supposedly all-wise God would show some level of reasonableness – in line with the essence of Philippians 4:5, which admonishes: “Let your reasonableness become known to all men.”
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556
The Watchtower are Right About Blood...
by cofty in... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.
it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.
they take pride in obedience.
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SAHS
“Finkelstein”: “The JWS intermingling with the old Hebraic law of abstaining from blood, goes onto the ridiculous on many levels.”
“cofty”: “The onus is 100% on JWs and JW sympathisers to show beyond all doubt that allowing a child to die rather than permit a blood transfusion is clearly demanded in scripture.. . . At the very least any honest person would have to admit there may be more to the question of blood than they had previously thought. Resorting to ridiculous excuses like saying the verse was talking about "inadvertently" eating a dead animal, and approving of risking a child's life on that basis, is shameful.”
Both those observations are most succinct and absolutely right on the money! Definitely, and emphatically, two thumbs up for each! Captain Obvious of those Hotels-dot-com commercials couldn’t have put it any clearer.
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These guys crash a Kingdom Hall on Memorial, video included
by Crazyguy inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7mars2mtaui.
to funny nice job....
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SAHS
“steve2”: “When the Witnesses door knock, they usually leave as soon as the householder says "Not interested" and tells them to leave.”
That may be true, usually, of at least more of the younger Witnesses who have grown up in a generation of society that tends to at least value basic tact and respect for the householders’ right to keep their own beliefs. However, from being a born-in JW for almost half a century, I know that quite often some JWs (especially the bold old-school oldtimers) will basically put their foot in the door and keep badgering the unprepared and uninterested householder until they’ve really made a nuissance of themselves, and some JWs will stubbornly just keep on calling back again and again until the householder is unfortunately forced to be rude and has to really spell it out loudly to the JW, “D-o n-o-t e-v-e-r c-a-l-l a-g-a-i-n!”
Now, I certainly agree with you that the antics of that guy in the video are over the top and completely uncalled for. But, as I mentioned, there is that other side of the coin on some of the JWs’ part as far as their rather aggressive and obstinate marketing methods.
What wouldn’t have been so bad is if the guy in the video were to just stand up, say one simple, brief sentence, perhaps something like, “Good evening, folks – this is for the generation of 1914 who will never pass away until the end of this system of things,” take a sip of the wine, and then shut up and respectfully, quietly leave. That wouldn’t have been too bad a way of going about it: just make a quick statement like that in a respectful and controlled manner and then immediately leave, quietly, without making an awkward and counterproductive nuissance of himself.
If he had simply done that, then it probably wouldn’t have been much more awkward and offensive than being badgered or called on relentlessly by one of the stalwart overzealous JWs.