All I can say is, If you read the book “The Gentile Times Reconsidered” by Carl Olef Jonsson (a former JW), which I myself have, they you will very clearly see that it absolutely blows the WTS’ whole 607/1914 teaching completely to bits on a molecular level. It really shows the blatant academic dishonesty on the part of the GB and debunks the WTS’ pet theory through a methodical and meticulous examination of studies and conclusions by famous historical scholars. That book really puts the cards on the table for all to see. After reading it, it really opened my eyes to the fact that the WTS has stretched history by exactly 20 years to accommodate its ridiculous eschatology, which is based on nothing more than an eccentric Adventist pastor and a power/money-hungry tyrant (Russell and Rutherford, respectively).
Posts by SAHS
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48Service meeting video....what a non-event
by sir82 inat our service meeting we saw the video of a jw explaining his beliefs about 1914.. it was.....well, "underwhelming" does not do it justice.
what is below "underwhelming"?
"boringly tepid"?.
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Why JWs are a CULT - ULTIMATE POST
by Black Man inhey all - i wanted to make a post to consolidate all the great info, posts, links about why jws are a cult (the signs, symptoms, everything, etc).. would love to have the definitions and specific examples of how jws fit those definitions/descriptions.. thanks in advance!
love you guys!!.
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SAHS
I think that it’s not just any particular thing but, rather, it is the total combination of such numerous proven inconsistencies and falsehoods. The WTS says that it can prove that we are in the “last days” of this “system of things” because “everything dovetails together” in the signs and events (that is, according to their own rather peculiar eschatologhy). But anyone can easily prove that the WTS is not “spirit directed” in any way, because the preponderance all those inconsistencies and falsehoods (lies) all combine to prove that it simply isn’t and couldn’t be the only true religion.
Actually, it was this very discussion board that did it for me. There was a reference in one of the threads to a compilation called “Spiritual Food At the Proper Time” (located at “http://www.freeminds.org), which is a chronological listing and comparison of all the Watchtower doctrines right from the start. That historical synopsis was extremely informative and eye-opening for me. It really lays out the development of the continuing mess of made-up dogma and the overwhelming number of discrepancies over all those years.
So, the thing that really clinched it for me was simply the combination of so much that fits like a key proving that the WTS is just another quirky sect/cult based on lies every bit as much as the rest of them and more.
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Anyone hear of this?? Is it legit???
by DATA-DOG inhttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/142464853/hendo-hoverboards-worlds-first-real-hoverboard.
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SAHS
That would be quite the means of locomotion for getting around! You could use those things in field service, if it weren’t for the stairs. The Governing Body should use those when they visit third world countries like Africa or India – maybe some of the locals might think it’s really “magical” and that they really are “gods” from above (i.e., the old “razzle-dazzle”).
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From A Bublical Point Of View Did You Ever Think The Trinity Doctrine Made Sense?
by minimus ini see no logic in it.
i see what appears to be some scriptural contradictions but i see no merit in a trinitarian view of god.. .
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SAHS
“fastJehu”: “One ELEMENT = H2O ---> but H2O can have one of the 3 conditions: water - ice – steam.”
Actually, H 2 0 (water) is two elements – hydrogen and oxygen – not one, resulting in one compound (not one element). [glasses icon]
“cofty”: “I accepted the doctrine as an imperfect post-biblical attempt to reconcile the deity of Jesus with monotheism.”
Now that is the most logical and plausible explanation on this thread.
“Coded Logic”: “You can use the Bible support or condemn just about anything you want as it so often has contradictory claims.”
That’s about it. The Bible’s cumbersome length and its ridiculously abstract and obscure, poetic (artsy-fartsy) styles lend itself to an infinite number of ambiguous – and, of course, self-serving – “interpretations.”
“lriddle80”: “I think of it like a family. God is a family consisting of The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.”
That’s a good analogy – except that the “Holy Spirit” is not supposed to be considered a separate being, or “person,” but, rather, God’s “active force”; that is, whatever non-physical “thing,” or “tool,” which God uses in accomplishing His purpose – like the WT’s example of us using electricity.
“NAVYTOWN”: “My view is that there may in fact be some sort of Ultimate Force that caused 'everything' to come into existence. But I don't think humans have the intelligence level at present to understand it. The churches certainly don't have the answers.”
That is my stance, exactly! Couldn’t have said it better myself. I think that if there is any kind of “Ultimate Force,” then it’s absolutely nothing like anything anybody says it is, especially any religion! (I.e., they’re all wrong. They’re like little ants crawling on an elephant and trying to guess what it is.)
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What is the perfect product to sell to a JW?
by usualusername inwhat is the perfect product to sell to a jw?.
cheap?.
exclusive?.
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SAHS
Everlasting life. . . . . Oh ya, they’ve already been sold that.
“Bobcat”: “I recently was given (w/o having asked) a key chain/LED light with JW.Org on it. I guess someone thought I was lacking, like I was a homeless person who needed a handout. (The LED light is bright - so it does have some usefulness.)”
And that’s the only thing that’s bright in that organization!
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Regular pioneering is a financial double whammy.
by hoser innot only does it steal your time from earning a living and having personal time, it also costs you real $$$ in fuel vehicle costs and maintainance .
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SAHS
And don’t forget the cost of contributing for all the literature, personal and for placing. (Of course, the WTS also gets any donations passed along from any received from those placements.) In addition, there are the personal contributions into all those contribution boxes for the local congregation, kingdom hall building fund, worldwide work (including the pedophile legal expense fund), etc. All those funds end up getting funneled worldwide to headquarters. Got to keep that ivory tower sparkly clean and in tip-top shape, which now includes their own little “Follywood” Internet TV production facilities! (I thought that up just now – “Follywood” – that’s damn funny.)
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From A Bublical Point Of View Did You Ever Think The Trinity Doctrine Made Sense?
by minimus ini see no logic in it.
i see what appears to be some scriptural contradictions but i see no merit in a trinitarian view of god.. .
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SAHS
I think that “pronomono” has the best logical explanation, saying that “they are one in the sense they are working in a unified effort toward a common goal.”
The term “trio” (or trinity) can be used for a musical performance by three individuals, not some physically doubly-conjoined-since-birth scenario. As far as the Holy Trinity goes, I would think that the intended essence of that doctrine is that of three separate, individual entities which each manifest a distinctly different type of manifestation, aspect, or “mode” of the Divine God – including God Himself, who is the Almighty Creator; as well as his chosen human representative, his “son,” Jesus Christ; and his active force, his holy spirit – all three of which being physically, or substantially, separate, but all three such fundamental elements being united in an embodiment and manifestation of “the divine.”
Think of it this way: A composite of the fundamental elements, or manifestations, or “modes,” of a government could be the country’s president, a top military general, and a Tomahawk cruise missile system. The president is the fundamental element of the federal government administration, the top military general is the representative in the flesh you might see in a military operation, and the Tomahawk cruise missile system – well that is the actual tool used to physically administer the will of the government (the thing that manifests the power to go right up your ass and blow your body’s cells umpteen ways from Sunday if you’re one of those ISIS folks). All three elements (president, general, missile) are a trio, or trinity, of whoop-ass that gets the job done. Simple.
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The ignorance of the "sheep"...and will door to door work phaze out due to being "challenged" too much at the door?
by integ inhello friends.. i notice alot of talk about the future and what it would take to bring the whole thing down and no one seems to think it can or will happen any time soon.
just seeing people here talk about what will happen once 2034 comes and goes is very discouraging.. i'm amazed this religion continues to move along as it does.
building, growing etc.
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SAHS
“Fernando”: “Years = 1,841,180,235 / (0.5 X 277,344) / (10 X 12) = 110 years”
For quite a lot of JWs like me, I think that the number of years needed to generate enough interest for even a “Bible study” would be almost infinite because I usually only get about two to four hours per month but at least half the time we’re at the doughnut shop or I’m on the Internet (mostly here) or napping in the car while my devout JW parents go on calls. So, evidently (I like using that word now, “evidently,” just for the funny irony), the whole door-knocking thing is just a show-of-loyalty / keep-banging-your-head-on-a-wall type of exercise used to help perpetuate the spell of indoctrination and devotion. And they think they’re really getting somewhere with it!
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The ignorance of the "sheep"...and will door to door work phaze out due to being "challenged" too much at the door?
by integ inhello friends.. i notice alot of talk about the future and what it would take to bring the whole thing down and no one seems to think it can or will happen any time soon.
just seeing people here talk about what will happen once 2034 comes and goes is very discouraging.. i'm amazed this religion continues to move along as it does.
building, growing etc.
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SAHS
The WTS’ message now, especially with those Caleb and Sophia animated videos (theocratic Sesame Street), seems at least to appear sort of more warm-and-fuzzy-like. But I thought that they would be gearing up to the time (shortly . . . . evidently) when the message is supposed to be getting really hard-hitting, supposedly like ‘giant hailstones.’ Looks like their whole scheme is getting a subtle rebranding right across the board.
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Let's Say 1914 Was The Establishment of God's Kingdom....what is the significance?
by minimus inas hillary clinton might say, what difference does it make???.
even if god's kingdom was established in 1914, why is that such a big deal?
other than unprovable actions in heaven, what can jws say is the significance of it all...with a straight face?.
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SAHS
“ScenicViewer”: “It also happens to be the only thing about 1914 that Watchtower says today that it also said in C.T. Russel's time. And that is it's the end of the Gentile Times.”
Actually, even this thing about the gentile times ending in 1914 is based on contrived falsehood.
For one thing, the WTS are the only people who claim that the destruction of ancient Jerusalem was 607 B.C.E. All the other religious historical scholars consider that date to be 20 years later, in 587 B.C.E. If you read the book The Gentile Times Reconsidered, by Carl Olof Jonsson (a former JW), which I read myself, you will see that it is very obvious that there is a period of exactly 20 years which the WTS has stretched to accommodate its own peculiar theology. That book absolutely and thoroughly blows this 607 B.C.E. thing to bits! It also shows the deliberate dishonesty and high-mindedness of the WTS. And, of course, no 607 B.C.E., then no 1914 either!
Another point is: if, theoretically, the WTS’ 1914 date was in fact to mark the end of the gentile times, then they would still be off according to the “evidence” because according to their scheme, the date would be in the month of October 1914, but, as we can see from history, the First World War started on July 28, 1914.
So, either way you look at it, the WTS’ 1914 date as both the end of the gentile times and as the commencement of the kingdom of Jesus Christ is simply wrong.