“Village Idiot”: “Sorry, but politicians do act like gods and believe that they have a monopoly on the "Truth".”
True. That, unfortunately, can happen. . . . . Just ask North Korean president Kim Jong-un.
playing devil's advocate here.... what's the difference between the gb changing bible interpretations compared to parliaments all over the world changing laws?
although the us constitution (=bible) remains untouched, congress passes i don't know how many new laws every year.
and of course people are expected to follow them.
“Village Idiot”: “Sorry, but politicians do act like gods and believe that they have a monopoly on the "Truth".”
True. That, unfortunately, can happen. . . . . Just ask North Korean president Kim Jong-un.
well that`s what was impressed on me to differentiate between the true religion and false religion , when i was converted in 1960 , do they still claim that ?
believing that they still do , i will say this.. what about ,:the governing body who definitely are set apart from the rank and file for their attitude towards the r&f , but also from the attitude of the r&f towards the governing body members.many do seem to idolise gb members by their actions , and the gb members dont seem to discourage that.. and not only for their attitude , how about their life-style , being housed in bethel with all the mod -cons of modern civilization as opposed to a r&f member living in a third world country .does the wt society do anything to make their lifestyle improve ?
{ did jesus have a place to rest his head ?
“DwainBowman”: “. . . just because they are not paid, dose not make them any less of a Clergy class.”
Actually, I’m glad you mentioned that!
Now, aside from the fact that the legal entities of the Watch Tower organization receive an annual total of 951 million dollars (US) – at least as per the year 2001 – they have always got “paid” in something far more significant than that. So, in what do they get “paid”?
I’ll tell you. The governing body get “paid” in that which they have always desired and sought: POWER! That’s right. They actually don’t care so much about monetary funds nearly as much as they do about the artificial praise and adoration they receive from their followers.
Think about it. The first four presidents (Charles Russell, Franklin Rutherford, Natan Knorr, and Frederick Franz) were during the monarchy times of the Watch Tower. Those men enjoyed the “honour” of the famous glory days. Thereafter, there were men serving on a “governing body” of the organization, but ALL of those men enjoyed the one thing they espoused as the most desirable thing of all: POWER.
Yes, between the humongous, super-luxury mansion the “judge” called home at Beth Sarim to the ultra-refined palatial accommodations which the so-called “governing body” reside in the top prime real estate in the heart of Brooklyn, New York (which, I would think, competitively rival even Donald Trump’s most opulent digs), the leaders of the Watch Tower organization have always enjoyed the very best this “world” has to offer in materialistic amenities – as well as, of course, their perceived ecclesiastical throne of godly prestige and custodians of the faith of all their adherents.
So, yes, indeed, they do get “paid” – and they have been ensuring that they keep getting “paid” within the façade of the false panacea and theocratic “utopia” they have been promulgating – or at least trying to sell – all along from the get-go.
playing devil's advocate here.... what's the difference between the gb changing bible interpretations compared to parliaments all over the world changing laws?
although the us constitution (=bible) remains untouched, congress passes i don't know how many new laws every year.
and of course people are expected to follow them.
“Is changing the "truth" / presenting "new light" really so bad?”
Not in itself, in general – at least not necessarily – however, the problem, as in the case of the Watch Tower organization, is that they claim to be the one-and-only mouthpiece for the Almighty God of the entire universe.
But, don’t forget this famous quote which was mentioned by the Late Raymond Franz: “With great power comes great responsibility.”
As the famous cosmologist Carl Sagan said: “Extraordinarily claims require extraordinary evidence.”
The famous republican comedian Bill Maher once said something when being interviewed by Larry King which I will always remember and which I think is quite apropos here: “I have no problem with God. I just have a problem with those who claim to speak for him.”
Well, I believe these great men above have most succinctly and poignantly summed up the precarious position of which those folks at the Watch Tower organization find themselves.
Finally, remember this well-renowned axiom: “So let the one who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall.” (1 Cor. 10:12, RNWT)
does anybody remember some of the sensational demon stories jw's would tell back in the day?
i was a kid in the early 80's and i remember a few times hearing of people having real life encounters with demons.
for example, one sister claimed that before she became a jdub she would regularly talk to demons and they would even fix stuff like her washing machine!
“Heaven”: “Once I discovered the complete sham this religion is, my nightmares and the demons all disappeared.”
That’s really about it! I’m sure my superheroes, Carl Sagan and Steven Hawking, couldn’t agree more.
well that`s what was impressed on me to differentiate between the true religion and false religion , when i was converted in 1960 , do they still claim that ?
believing that they still do , i will say this.. what about ,:the governing body who definitely are set apart from the rank and file for their attitude towards the r&f , but also from the attitude of the r&f towards the governing body members.many do seem to idolise gb members by their actions , and the gb members dont seem to discourage that.. and not only for their attitude , how about their life-style , being housed in bethel with all the mod -cons of modern civilization as opposed to a r&f member living in a third world country .does the wt society do anything to make their lifestyle improve ?
{ did jesus have a place to rest his head ?
“johnamos”: “Another point on this, do you agree that the terms ‘the faithful and discreet slave class/the faithful and discreet slave /the faithful slave class/the faithful slave/the slave class‘ or ‘Governing Body‘ – w/capitals G&B) are titles,…i.e. [lower case (g) (b) for first century> vs. ]”
Excellent point! The current governing body entitles themselves with capitalization to drive home the point to everyone their self-perceived status of being elevated above any and all other earthly humans – now even above the rest of their anointed bretheren, in that the “faithful and discreet slave,” according to themselves (big surprise!), comprise soley the governing body! (I forgot to capitalize this last reference to the governing body – on purpose!)
update on mouthy (grace gough)this is graces granddaughter.
i wanted to send an update that today my beautiful grandmother passed away - surrounded by friends and family.
- may 22 1927 - sept 2nd 2016. mouthys_granddaughter.
That sucks! When I just heard that our dear Mouthy has passed away, it gave me a twinge of shock and nausea. I really hate it big-time when I hear of someone so dear and principled as our Monthly has died. I certainly did NOT like hearing about the loss of Mouthy, As I said above, it really sucks. But, know that Mouthy has touched many lives – including my own, for sure.
I absolutely HATE hearing about the passing of anyone such as our dear Mouthy. It is most certainly the very last thing I wanted to hear today!
As I said above, it most certainly sucks hearing about Mouth’s passing. But, apparently, everyone is going to realize the same fate; but, still, it’s rather crappy news that someone so dear as Mouthy has died.
i am a curious person.
i am challenged by the unknown.
i can be driven, out of sheer frustration, to penetrate a closed veil of conspiracy.
Sometimes people derive pleasure from just “letting go” and allowing themselves to be fooled. We all do this when we pay to go to a movie theatre to be entertained, and somewhat dazzled, by the state-of-the-art special effects. We’ve paid good money to allow ourselves to be “fooled,” even if it’s for a mere couple of hours. And that’s just fine and dandy.
However, where it can become unfortunately harmful and destructive is when the basic, primal elements of fear and shame are employed by religious groups to control people to such an extent that their natural logical, critical thinking ability, as well as conscience, are hijacked to the end of serving the leaders’ self-indulgence quest for power and glory.
“Your brain REWARDS you when your expectations are defeated by something unexpected!”
This is actually also a functioning of how we can enjoy music. (I saw a documentary on that recently.) Music presents us with certain patterns which build a sort of micro expectation and throws us a loop by changing to notes and chords which are pleasurably unexpected.
“. . . these magicians were variously called Prophets, Miracle Workers and Demi-gods.”
Don’t forget “oracles” – Fred Franz certainly comes to mind there.
“Fool me once; shame on you. Fool me twice; shame on me.”
You really stole my thunder there, Terry! That was one of the first things to come to my mind. I think pretty much all of us on this Website are in that class of having been fooled by a certain religion (the one with the spiffy new blue square logo, bearing within a certain “JW” dot “org” in white print – yes, that one) but are now much all the wiser for it. And thank goodness for that!
to save us all a lot of time and effort..... [some complex structure in living organisms described].
[i can't imagine how this could be the product of evolution].
[therefore god created it].
Don’t forget the old classic:
. [There has never been a human baby born from a monkey; therefore, humans couldn’t have evolved from monkeys.]
However, as most of us no doubt already know, humans and “monkeys” are both primates. In other words, it’s not that humans came from primates, but, rather, humans ARE primates!
when jehovah brings armageddon, will he let me live long enough to witness the deaths of my children and grand children because they didn't believe in him?
.
since i've faded and i don't promote worshiping him anymore, i am just wondering.. at least i'd know for sure what kind of god he is?.
“watson”: “When Jehovah brings Armageddon, will he let me live long enough to witness the deaths of my children and grand children . . . ?”
Well, I’m sure he wouldn’t pass up an opportunity to put on a good show for you so you can see what he’s really like.
Jehovah is like a big bully in a tank top muscle shirt who enjoys picking on small guys to show off how wonderfully strong and tough he is. When people act like that, we call them narcissistic, sadistic sociopaths. But in the case of Jehovah, well, apparently he’s just being a wonderful, manly god of war.
Good thing that sh^tty thing doesn’t exist! (The WT made a good atheist out of me.)
well it took awhile.
i've downsized.
got rid of my bmw.
I am actually working on securing some theocratic appointments myself! It’s true. I have already been appointed to the position of spiritually weak. I have aspirations of becoming inactive, and I am trying to be optimistic about reaching my ultimate theocratic goal: to attain the formal position of disassociated one.
I guess I should pray about attaining my goals. I should pray that my old rich aunt, who has me in her will for over $100,000, passes away peacefully so that I can finally pay off my debts and move out on my own. And after my parents are gone, I will make sure that my name is announced as having reached my ultimate theocratic goal being disassociated.
Note that I’m certainly not wishing any harm or early demise of anyone, especially my parents. But I like to have those goals to focus on as a sort of light at the end of the tunnel.