Posts by OrphanCrow

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

OrphanCrow

The Rebel: My additional comment is, I was of the assumption Simon started this forum to help people out of a " CULT" and i in my case " EdenOnes" posts gave me that help. So in my life "EdenOne" represented what this forum is about, giving people the help, support and determination to live a life outside the Watchtoer. I also think this forum can subtract from its origional purpose when threads become devoid of that intent.

That is great that Eden's posts helped you. However, this forum is not just about you. Everybody here is at their own personal place in recovery and each poster will enter into conversations with feedback reflecting the place that they are at.

You cannot control how other posters respond to you and you cannot determine what other people need in order to cope and function with their cult exit.

What helps you may not help someone else, and what helps someone else may not help you. This is a community of diversity.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

OrphanCrow

TheRebel: Some posters must write from the heart, and they should be at liberty to do so. They cannot do that if the ideas from the heart are crushed without sensitivity.

By saying "from the heart", I understand that you mean "from an emotional place". Correct me if I am wrong, please. But, for the sake of this discussion...I am going to go with that.

I think that this is a fundamental issue on this thread - emotion vs. rationality.

Anytime that somebody puts "beliefs" out there to be discussed, the discussion is invariably emotional - it can't help but be that, because beliefs are based upon emotion, not rationality.

As far as "respect" of belief goes, I cannot respect a belief that is harmful to others. I measure belief on the actions that it produces.

59

Cooperate Members of the Watchtower Society

by James Jack in

a older sister in miami florida has told me that the special pioneer couple who got their walking papers last week said they are also voting members of the watchtower society.

also his stock share is valued at $800,000!.

i did some research and spoke to some longtime witnesses and found out that there are 500 voting members of the society and they are also called shareholders.. has anyone ever of someone selling his share?.

OrphanCrow

Lieu: Yes, it's a corporation with shareholders, voting members and such. Not all are JWS either.

I have heard this before - that there are shareholders in the WTS that are not JWs. However, I have never found confirmation of this and I have never found a shareholder list. Do you know if such a list exists? And do you know who these "non-JWs" are?

Is the shareholder list secret?

29

"Only Baptized Ones have Unrestricted Privilege of Prayer"

by BluesBrother in

i was sitting at the recent circuit assembly that i attended, (the things i do for sis blues) and the baptism talk was under way .

i admit that my mind was more on my imminent packed lunch and flask of coffee but i distinctly heard the speaker make the statement that heads this thread and cite a wt reference.. you what !

i was shocked....... how can they possibly make such an arrogant statement ?

OrphanCrow

Morpheus: They say the "unrestricted" privilege of prayer. Then they dont define what a "restricted" prayer is.

Well, we do know that JW women are "restricted" in prayer.

The statement that a baptized person has "unrestricted prayer privileges" only applies to men. Which would be less than 40% of the congregations.

Put yr hankys on yr heads, ladies....isn't "unrestricted prayer privileges" after baptism a wonderful provision from Jehobah?

34

Caleb and Sofia used to brainwash children

by shattered_origins in

okay, i need to vent.

as a newly awoken individual, i have yet to "come out" to my hard core jdub parents.

my plan was to lay low and use my unbelieving husband and baby as an excuse for my "inactivity", it has worked for the last few months.

OrphanCrow

room215: What's next? Sophia and Caleb action figures?

Dolls.

More here.

59

Cooperate Members of the Watchtower Society

by James Jack in

a older sister in miami florida has told me that the special pioneer couple who got their walking papers last week said they are also voting members of the watchtower society.

also his stock share is valued at $800,000!.

i did some research and spoke to some longtime witnesses and found out that there are 500 voting members of the society and they are also called shareholders.. has anyone ever of someone selling his share?.

OrphanCrow

saint: So it seems as if the bulk of the shareholders (men and women) were happy to give these shares back to the WTBTS directors to do with how they saw fit.

Yeah...I have always figured that the women got lost in the "Against the Resolution - 47 votes". The decision to change the voting shares and structure was not unaminous.

*pssst...Penton was a history professor...not law.

44

We talk a lot about conditional friends on here

by cappytan in

jw
friends

so, when people post about being shunned by their friends, i've heard several posters say things like, "their friendship is conditional.

real friendships aren't conditional.".

i'm sorry, but that just isn't really true.. if you and i were friends, there are conditions.

OrphanCrow

oubilette:...Just as it is with pretty much everythng JWs believe: it's all fantasy.

It is cult thinking. All or nothing.

Cult thinking is black and white thinking - there is no "grey area".

Forever or not at all. Which doesn't work in real life because life is lived in grey areas and uncertainty. JWs don't 'live'....they exist.

59

Cooperate Members of the Watchtower Society

by James Jack in

a older sister in miami florida has told me that the special pioneer couple who got their walking papers last week said they are also voting members of the watchtower society.

also his stock share is valued at $800,000!.

i did some research and spoke to some longtime witnesses and found out that there are 500 voting members of the society and they are also called shareholders.. has anyone ever of someone selling his share?.

OrphanCrow

(me) "And...what about the five women who had been named as the inheritors of Russell's stock?"
According to the 1945 charter amendment, only men are to be nominated as shareholders.

That is right. Men only. That is why I wonder what happened to the women's shares (that had monetary value at the time they inherited them). Did the WTS just kick the women to the curb and confiscate the stock value?

59

Cooperate Members of the Watchtower Society

by James Jack in

a older sister in miami florida has told me that the special pioneer couple who got their walking papers last week said they are also voting members of the watchtower society.

also his stock share is valued at $800,000!.

i did some research and spoke to some longtime witnesses and found out that there are 500 voting members of the society and they are also called shareholders.. has anyone ever of someone selling his share?.

OrphanCrow

HalfBanana: I should like to ask: does anyone have any idea of what happened to the stock value of the WTBTS before the cut off date in the forties and does it still continue among the inheritors of the original stock holders ...or was it realised at that time and henceforth abolished? This does require an answer.

I have been curious about the very same thing, halfbanana.

And...what about the five women who had been named as the inheritors of Russell's stock?

59

Cooperate Members of the Watchtower Society

by James Jack in

a older sister in miami florida has told me that the special pioneer couple who got their walking papers last week said they are also voting members of the watchtower society.

also his stock share is valued at $800,000!.

i did some research and spoke to some longtime witnesses and found out that there are 500 voting members of the society and they are also called shareholders.. has anyone ever of someone selling his share?.

OrphanCrow

leavingquietly: However, them having shares that are actually worth something... well, that's very interesting.

The WTS shares are only voting shares, according to the WTS charter. If the shares are worth money, I would really, really like to have proof/documentation of that.

You can check the WTS corporate charter and amendments here:

http://watchtowerdocuments.org/corporate-charter-amendments/

or here:

https://jwleaks.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/watchtower-bible-and-tract-society-of-new-york-charter-and-certificate-of-incorporation.pdf

Maybe I have missed something...that is possible. The voting shares during Russell's time were bought - for a dollar each. Whoever invested the most had the most power. When the 1945 amendment to the charter was instituted, the monetary value was eliminated from the voting shares.The voting shares went from 232,266 down to 300-500.

http://www.witnessesuntome.com/1945_Charter_of_WTBTS.pdf