Posts by OrphanCrow

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

OrphanCrow

TheRebel: Absolutely OpenCrow, that was never my suggestion. But when the brain is a silent immovable rock, trapped in a captive Jehovers Witness mind, it needs compassion and answers. Now I am not saying we should all be full of love and not challenge a posters deeply held believes. All I am saying is some posters, can respond to posters deeply held beliefs and be as challenging but with more sympathy and understanding than other posters.

*pssst...it is "Orphan" Crow...

You are right that a person's "cult brain" needs compassion and answers. Some people are going to give you compassion, and others are going to give you answers. As the old saying goes - "the truth can hurt".

Don't ever forget that those posters who you perceive as not being sympathetic and understanding are also in recovery.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

OrphanCrow

The Rebel: It would be interesting if we had statistics, of those prominent posters like minimus, blondie, Viviane, Cofty& ,EdenOne. I wonder of those posters which have been most helpful in helping assisting Simons intended purpose with the forum, which is to help those people through their Watchtower exsperience.
Anyway my vote goes to...
Number 3 . Blondie
Number 2 Minimus
Number one....( after the remission)

Rebel, this forum is not a competition.

We don't measure worth on how many people a poster has "saved".

Everybody has worth.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

OrphanCrow

viviane:
(Me)"I think that this is a fundamental issue on this thread - emotion vs. rationality."

I don't know if that is true. For instance, if someone I work with came to me with a question, say "Hey Viv, take a look at this configuration for a computing system and the projected workload. Will this system meet the workload requirements?", I would then do some math. There are almost always things we don't know, things we can't plan or calculate for in exercises like this, so you have to used past experience, educated guesses, etc.. If, after looking at everything, compiling what we do know with the things we had to makes assumptions or best guesses for and doing the math, etc., would it be an emotional belief to say "I believe this design will be adequate"?

That is a tough one, Viv. and this is something I have thought about this many times in the past. What is belief? What is knowledge? Is my "belief" rational?

In the above example that you give, Viv, I think that your belief would be emotional. Yes, it is based upon rational computations, but at the same time, the final "leap" would be emotional. Your rational assessment of the situation got you to the point that you could make a decision, but your final answer was a "belief", not something you "knew" without question.

*to add - maybe in your example, Viv, saying "I think this design would be accurate" would be a more accurate way to communicate what you mean. You don't really "believe" it is accurate...you "think" it is accurate.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

OrphanCrow

The Rebel: My additional comment is, I was of the assumption Simon started this forum to help people out of a " CULT" and i in my case " EdenOnes" posts gave me that help. So in my life "EdenOne" represented what this forum is about, giving people the help, support and determination to live a life outside the Watchtoer. I also think this forum can subtract from its origional purpose when threads become devoid of that intent.

That is great that Eden's posts helped you. However, this forum is not just about you. Everybody here is at their own personal place in recovery and each poster will enter into conversations with feedback reflecting the place that they are at.

You cannot control how other posters respond to you and you cannot determine what other people need in order to cope and function with their cult exit.

What helps you may not help someone else, and what helps someone else may not help you. This is a community of diversity.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

OrphanCrow

TheRebel: Some posters must write from the heart, and they should be at liberty to do so. They cannot do that if the ideas from the heart are crushed without sensitivity.

By saying "from the heart", I understand that you mean "from an emotional place". Correct me if I am wrong, please. But, for the sake of this discussion...I am going to go with that.

I think that this is a fundamental issue on this thread - emotion vs. rationality.

Anytime that somebody puts "beliefs" out there to be discussed, the discussion is invariably emotional - it can't help but be that, because beliefs are based upon emotion, not rationality.

As far as "respect" of belief goes, I cannot respect a belief that is harmful to others. I measure belief on the actions that it produces.

59

Cooperate Members of the Watchtower Society

by James Jack in

a older sister in miami florida has told me that the special pioneer couple who got their walking papers last week said they are also voting members of the watchtower society.

also his stock share is valued at $800,000!.

i did some research and spoke to some longtime witnesses and found out that there are 500 voting members of the society and they are also called shareholders.. has anyone ever of someone selling his share?.

OrphanCrow

Lieu: Yes, it's a corporation with shareholders, voting members and such. Not all are JWS either.

I have heard this before - that there are shareholders in the WTS that are not JWs. However, I have never found confirmation of this and I have never found a shareholder list. Do you know if such a list exists? And do you know who these "non-JWs" are?

Is the shareholder list secret?

29

"Only Baptized Ones have Unrestricted Privilege of Prayer"

by BluesBrother in

i was sitting at the recent circuit assembly that i attended, (the things i do for sis blues) and the baptism talk was under way .

i admit that my mind was more on my imminent packed lunch and flask of coffee but i distinctly heard the speaker make the statement that heads this thread and cite a wt reference.. you what !

i was shocked....... how can they possibly make such an arrogant statement ?

OrphanCrow

Morpheus: They say the "unrestricted" privilege of prayer. Then they dont define what a "restricted" prayer is.

Well, we do know that JW women are "restricted" in prayer.

The statement that a baptized person has "unrestricted prayer privileges" only applies to men. Which would be less than 40% of the congregations.

Put yr hankys on yr heads, ladies....isn't "unrestricted prayer privileges" after baptism a wonderful provision from Jehobah?

34

Caleb and Sofia used to brainwash children

by shattered_origins in

okay, i need to vent.

as a newly awoken individual, i have yet to "come out" to my hard core jdub parents.

my plan was to lay low and use my unbelieving husband and baby as an excuse for my "inactivity", it has worked for the last few months.

OrphanCrow

room215: What's next? Sophia and Caleb action figures?

Dolls.

More here.

59

Cooperate Members of the Watchtower Society

by James Jack in

a older sister in miami florida has told me that the special pioneer couple who got their walking papers last week said they are also voting members of the watchtower society.

also his stock share is valued at $800,000!.

i did some research and spoke to some longtime witnesses and found out that there are 500 voting members of the society and they are also called shareholders.. has anyone ever of someone selling his share?.

OrphanCrow

saint: So it seems as if the bulk of the shareholders (men and women) were happy to give these shares back to the WTBTS directors to do with how they saw fit.

Yeah...I have always figured that the women got lost in the "Against the Resolution - 47 votes". The decision to change the voting shares and structure was not unaminous.

*pssst...Penton was a history professor...not law.

44

We talk a lot about conditional friends on here

by cappytan in

jw
friends

so, when people post about being shunned by their friends, i've heard several posters say things like, "their friendship is conditional.

real friendships aren't conditional.".

i'm sorry, but that just isn't really true.. if you and i were friends, there are conditions.

OrphanCrow

oubilette:...Just as it is with pretty much everythng JWs believe: it's all fantasy.

It is cult thinking. All or nothing.

Cult thinking is black and white thinking - there is no "grey area".

Forever or not at all. Which doesn't work in real life because life is lived in grey areas and uncertainty. JWs don't 'live'....they exist.