Posts by OrphanCrow

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

OrphanCrow

FormerBrother: The truth from the JW org, does have the ring of truth to it.

The "ring of truth" that you are speaking of, FB, is a designed process that the WT is really good at implementing.

Consider how that "truth" is fed to you. It is done in a revaltory model - a person is given information, and they are guided through a process that does not allow for any other thinking to intrude upon a person's mind. They are presented with simple questions that require a scan of the material presented, and then they are required to give the simple answer. This results in the participant having an "eureka" moment - but it is a moment that is carefully controlled. The person is left feeling like they have had a personal revelation about some matter, when in actuality, they have only responded to somebody else's "truth" - it isn't your own truth - it is the truth of the one who set you up to think that it is your truth.

The pedagogical process of how the WT disseminates their "truth" is what gives a person the notion that they have 'discovered' the truth...and that the discovery is one that they have personally made.

As far as who comes closest to interpreting correctly that old, old collections of books that have been made into a volume, which people refer to as the "Bible", you would have more luck with determining the "truth" of Aesop's Fables. The Bible is a collection of literature. That is all it is. A historical collection of a bunch of books written over a long period of time and translated countless number of times.

Critically examining the Bible is no different than critically analyzing a collection of another culturally grouped collection of writings. Interpreting it though, is what has allowed a multitude of people to control and manipulate its contents for their own purposes and greed.

The WT's interpretation of what is inside the Bible only appears to be truthful because of the way that they disseminate their interpretation of it. The WT educates people to accept their version of that old, old book. Acceptance of their "truth" is only the result of being subjected to their educational process.

8

Witnesses pledge $5.5M to fix crummy Dumbo park

by OrphanCrow in

witnesses pledge $5.5m to fix crummy dumbo park.

they will clean up before they leave.the jehovahs witnesses will give the city $5.5 million to overhaul a run-down dumbo park the organization promised to make-over more than a decade ago as part of a lucrative rezoning deal, after local pols demanded the group finally honor its pledge before it sells all its land and decamps from the borough for good.the sect officially the watchtower bible and tract society believes the money will be enough to cover its share of the long-stalled plans for the land.watchtower has set aside this amount to cover the funds officials estimated the city would need to take over this project and complete the current vision for the park, the group told this paper.the religious outfit offered to fix the moribund bridge park 2 a slab of crumbling concrete next to york street station and quite possibly the crummiest park in the city in 2004, when the city agreed to let the group build a huge housing complex on a massive parking lot next door at 85 jay st.plans at the time included a turf baseball field, a new playground, and a lighted path from the subway station to the neighboring farragut houses development.but watchtower never actually built the new property, and the planning process for the park facelift dragged for years through various design permeations, eventually hitting an impasse over cost and labor the witnesses wanted to use its members as volunteer workers, which is not how the city typically does business.the groups announcement last month that it is selling 85 jay st. now incredibly valuable thanks to the residential rezoning as part of its mass exodus from the neighborhood it has long called home sparked renewed calls for the witnesses to keep their vow and put some of the massive windfall to good use.it is unacceptable that since the watchtower committed to work with the parks department, over 11 years have passed, the site has seen no improvements, and remains a piece of barren asphalt, a host of local pols and business leaders wrote in a letter to the organization in december.it remains to be seen whether $5.5 million will be enough to take the park from drab to fab, however the parks department said it cant estimate the total costs without a concrete plan for the park in place.

watchtower honchos say they have one ready, based on the citys most recent requests for the site, which now include a skate park and a multipurpose field.those pushing for the park renewal say they also want more details before celebrating, but the pledge is still good news.without seeing the details, that seems like a significant step in the right direction, said councilman steve levin (dboerum hill), one of the letter-writing pols.

OrphanCrow

Betterdaze, thank you for the information. I stand corrected.

Sorry....

My apologies to Mr. Zemsky.

* I was getting all the Taurus companies confused. Reibling has his finger in so many Taurus companies. This is from Reiblings' site http://www.tiholdings.com/:

"Taurus, TIH, and Taurus Investment are the international marketing names for all activities of Taurus Investment Group, Inc., Taurus Investment Holdings, LLC,

Taurus Capital Markets, LLC, Taurus Management Services, LLC, Taurus New England Investment Corp. and their affiliates."

21

Where does the money come from to operate the Hospital Information network?

by OrphanCrow in

the recent buzz that has hit the online communities concerning the watchtower society and their evil offspring - the jw org - revolves around their apparent financial difficulties.

many factors have been discussed - the real estate flips (and flops), the changes in meetings and field service, the need for donations to cover expenses, the push for donations.

where does the money come from to operate the hospital information network?

OrphanCrow

Lee: The WTS has already published what amounts to counsel for JW medical professionals to violate HIPPA. Good discussion of this is Dr. Muramoto's articles in the Journal of Medical Ethics

I have read Dr. Muramato's articles. They are quite good and there needs to be more written and made public about the WTS' coercive methods and how they sidestep ethical issues.

The bloodless clinics that exist in the US are ripe for violations of the HIPPA. And, as you have pointed out, the WTS encourages professionals to violate their oath if they feel they should "put Jehovah first".

The "bloodless" clinics that were established in the US were put in place by JWs. The directors who organize and run the bloodless clinics are connected to the WTS and many of them are/were HLC fellows. When a JW attends a bloodless clinic, they are not getting treated by medical professionals that sit independent from the WTS - the clinics ARE the WTS/JWs themselves. This is something that few JWs are aware of. They think that by choosing noblood options and going to a bloodless clinic, that they are getting independent medical treatment but their treatment is being directed by the very same organization that has told them that "God" wants them to chose that route.

Here is an example (I recommend reading Blakeney's background for all those who still believe that the HLC is just a bunch of elders who bone up on blood substitutes and such...this is what the big guys in the HLC network aspire to):

Edward Blakeney is one of many Jehovah's Witnesses working in the field of bloodless medicine.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/edward-blakeney/50/b11/453?trk=pub-pbmap

According to Edward Blakeney's professional profile, he states that in his capacity as a Blood Conservation Coordinator for Tenet Healthcare, he " Facilitated contract with Jehovah's Witnesses Headquarters". And much more...

Created a database company specializing in improving patient outcomes and lowering blood utilization cost. Company was acquired by Haemonetics in 2007.

Haemonetics - the company that was run by the fellow who worked with Lorenz Reibling back when Haemonetics was still part of American Hospital Supply. Haemonetics - the company that manufactures the cell saver that was an integral part of alternative treatment for JWs way back in the days before the r&f JWs even knew what one was.

Not only are the bloodless clinics run by JWs, but we now have the situation in Australia where an entire country is getting their blood needs influenced by JW men who were once HLC. So, the WT noblood influence is no longer "just a JW" issue - it effects everybody. Europe is facing the very same thing - bloodless clinics owned, managed, and directed by JW doctors and JW medical professionals. And in other countries as well, blood "management" is primarily propelled by JW medical professionals.

I would love to see an inquiry that focused on the WTS' HLC network and their involvement in promoting blood management and alternative medical procedures. There is no doubt in my mind that the WTS has clearly violated ethical parameters in how they have handled their blood ban. And they have gotten away with it...so far.

*about that article, Lee...I sent you a pm. :)

8

Witnesses pledge $5.5M to fix crummy Dumbo park

by OrphanCrow in

witnesses pledge $5.5m to fix crummy dumbo park.

they will clean up before they leave.the jehovahs witnesses will give the city $5.5 million to overhaul a run-down dumbo park the organization promised to make-over more than a decade ago as part of a lucrative rezoning deal, after local pols demanded the group finally honor its pledge before it sells all its land and decamps from the borough for good.the sect officially the watchtower bible and tract society believes the money will be enough to cover its share of the long-stalled plans for the land.watchtower has set aside this amount to cover the funds officials estimated the city would need to take over this project and complete the current vision for the park, the group told this paper.the religious outfit offered to fix the moribund bridge park 2 a slab of crumbling concrete next to york street station and quite possibly the crummiest park in the city in 2004, when the city agreed to let the group build a huge housing complex on a massive parking lot next door at 85 jay st.plans at the time included a turf baseball field, a new playground, and a lighted path from the subway station to the neighboring farragut houses development.but watchtower never actually built the new property, and the planning process for the park facelift dragged for years through various design permeations, eventually hitting an impasse over cost and labor the witnesses wanted to use its members as volunteer workers, which is not how the city typically does business.the groups announcement last month that it is selling 85 jay st. now incredibly valuable thanks to the residential rezoning as part of its mass exodus from the neighborhood it has long called home sparked renewed calls for the witnesses to keep their vow and put some of the massive windfall to good use.it is unacceptable that since the watchtower committed to work with the parks department, over 11 years have passed, the site has seen no improvements, and remains a piece of barren asphalt, a host of local pols and business leaders wrote in a letter to the organization in december.it remains to be seen whether $5.5 million will be enough to take the park from drab to fab, however the parks department said it cant estimate the total costs without a concrete plan for the park in place.

watchtower honchos say they have one ready, based on the citys most recent requests for the site, which now include a skate park and a multipurpose field.those pushing for the park renewal say they also want more details before celebrating, but the pledge is still good news.without seeing the details, that seems like a significant step in the right direction, said councilman steve levin (dboerum hill), one of the letter-writing pols.

OrphanCrow

Petra:
Excellent research. What a connection!?

OrphanCrow: Note that the rezoning raised the value of the WT property. One of the major players responsible for rezoning in New York is a Taurus man (Lorenz Reibling's real estate company) who sits on the board of the Empire State Development Corp.

Thanks, Petra. Yes, apparently that is how real estate business is done in the Big Apple.

Howard Zemsky is a Managing Partner at Taurus Capital partners LLC.

http://littlesis.org/relationship/view/id/248745

From this article published in August 2015:

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/2015/8/28/brooklyn-bridge-parks-pier-6-public-comment-deadline-monday

The deadline for the public to comment to the Empire State Development Corp. (ESD) on the proposed Pier 6 development in Brooklyn Bridge Park is Monday, Aug. 31, at 5 p.m.
The board of the ESD will have a major decision on their hands. While the city says two high-rise towers at the park’s Atlantic Avenue entrance are financially necessary and provide a spot for affordable housing, opponents – including neighborhood organizations, officials and local residents -- have presented a nearly solid wall of opposition.

At the end of the article, we find out a little bit more about the Managing Partner of Taurus Capital LLC, a Reibling company.

Board of Directors of the Empire State Development Corp.
Howard Zemsky, (Ex Officio Director); Empire State Development, President and CEO; NYS Department of Economic Development, Commissioner

8

Witnesses pledge $5.5M to fix crummy Dumbo park

by OrphanCrow in

witnesses pledge $5.5m to fix crummy dumbo park.

they will clean up before they leave.the jehovahs witnesses will give the city $5.5 million to overhaul a run-down dumbo park the organization promised to make-over more than a decade ago as part of a lucrative rezoning deal, after local pols demanded the group finally honor its pledge before it sells all its land and decamps from the borough for good.the sect officially the watchtower bible and tract society believes the money will be enough to cover its share of the long-stalled plans for the land.watchtower has set aside this amount to cover the funds officials estimated the city would need to take over this project and complete the current vision for the park, the group told this paper.the religious outfit offered to fix the moribund bridge park 2 a slab of crumbling concrete next to york street station and quite possibly the crummiest park in the city in 2004, when the city agreed to let the group build a huge housing complex on a massive parking lot next door at 85 jay st.plans at the time included a turf baseball field, a new playground, and a lighted path from the subway station to the neighboring farragut houses development.but watchtower never actually built the new property, and the planning process for the park facelift dragged for years through various design permeations, eventually hitting an impasse over cost and labor the witnesses wanted to use its members as volunteer workers, which is not how the city typically does business.the groups announcement last month that it is selling 85 jay st. now incredibly valuable thanks to the residential rezoning as part of its mass exodus from the neighborhood it has long called home sparked renewed calls for the witnesses to keep their vow and put some of the massive windfall to good use.it is unacceptable that since the watchtower committed to work with the parks department, over 11 years have passed, the site has seen no improvements, and remains a piece of barren asphalt, a host of local pols and business leaders wrote in a letter to the organization in december.it remains to be seen whether $5.5 million will be enough to take the park from drab to fab, however the parks department said it cant estimate the total costs without a concrete plan for the park in place.

watchtower honchos say they have one ready, based on the citys most recent requests for the site, which now include a skate park and a multipurpose field.those pushing for the park renewal say they also want more details before celebrating, but the pledge is still good news.without seeing the details, that seems like a significant step in the right direction, said councilman steve levin (dboerum hill), one of the letter-writing pols.

OrphanCrow

DD:I also hope they lose all their profit from the re-zoning! 😈

Me too. The WT had wanted to reduce their investment in the park by their typical route - slave labour - and the city was having none of it. It appears like the reason the park plans were stalled was because the city wouldn't let them use volunteers to do the work.

But Watchtower never actually built the new property, and the planning process for the park facelift dragged for years through various design permeations, eventually hitting an impasse over cost and labor — the Witnesses wanted to use its members as volunteer workers, which is not how the city typically does business.

8

Witnesses pledge $5.5M to fix crummy Dumbo park

by OrphanCrow in

witnesses pledge $5.5m to fix crummy dumbo park.

they will clean up before they leave.the jehovahs witnesses will give the city $5.5 million to overhaul a run-down dumbo park the organization promised to make-over more than a decade ago as part of a lucrative rezoning deal, after local pols demanded the group finally honor its pledge before it sells all its land and decamps from the borough for good.the sect officially the watchtower bible and tract society believes the money will be enough to cover its share of the long-stalled plans for the land.watchtower has set aside this amount to cover the funds officials estimated the city would need to take over this project and complete the current vision for the park, the group told this paper.the religious outfit offered to fix the moribund bridge park 2 a slab of crumbling concrete next to york street station and quite possibly the crummiest park in the city in 2004, when the city agreed to let the group build a huge housing complex on a massive parking lot next door at 85 jay st.plans at the time included a turf baseball field, a new playground, and a lighted path from the subway station to the neighboring farragut houses development.but watchtower never actually built the new property, and the planning process for the park facelift dragged for years through various design permeations, eventually hitting an impasse over cost and labor the witnesses wanted to use its members as volunteer workers, which is not how the city typically does business.the groups announcement last month that it is selling 85 jay st. now incredibly valuable thanks to the residential rezoning as part of its mass exodus from the neighborhood it has long called home sparked renewed calls for the witnesses to keep their vow and put some of the massive windfall to good use.it is unacceptable that since the watchtower committed to work with the parks department, over 11 years have passed, the site has seen no improvements, and remains a piece of barren asphalt, a host of local pols and business leaders wrote in a letter to the organization in december.it remains to be seen whether $5.5 million will be enough to take the park from drab to fab, however the parks department said it cant estimate the total costs without a concrete plan for the park in place.

watchtower honchos say they have one ready, based on the citys most recent requests for the site, which now include a skate park and a multipurpose field.those pushing for the park renewal say they also want more details before celebrating, but the pledge is still good news.without seeing the details, that seems like a significant step in the right direction, said councilman steve levin (dboerum hill), one of the letter-writing pols.

OrphanCrow

Witnesses pledge $5.5M to fix crummy Dumbo park

They will clean up before they leave.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses will give the city $5.5 million to overhaul a run-down Dumbo park the organization promised to make-over more than a decade ago as part of a lucrative rezoning deal, after local pols demanded the group finally honor its pledge before it sells all its land and decamps from the borough for good.
The sect — officially the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society — believes the money will be enough to cover its share of the long-stalled plans for the land.
“Watchtower has set aside this amount to cover the funds officials estimated the city would need to take over this project and complete the current vision for the park,” the group told this paper.
The religious outfit offered to fix the moribund Bridge Park 2 — a slab of crumbling concrete next to York Street station and quite possibly the crummiest park in the city — in 2004, when the city agreed to let the group build a huge housing complex on a massive parking lot next door at 85 Jay St.
Plans at the time included a turf baseball field, a new playground, and a lighted path from the subway station to the neighboring Farragut Houses development.
But Watchtower never actually built the new property, and the planning process for the park facelift dragged for years through various design permeations, eventually hitting an impasse over cost and labor — the Witnesses wanted to use its members as volunteer workers, which is not how the city typically does business.
The group’s announcement last month that it is selling 85 Jay St. — now incredibly valuable thanks to the residential rezoning — as part of its mass exodus from the neighborhood it has long called home sparked renewed calls for the Witnesses to keep their vow and put some of the massive windfall to good use.
“It is unacceptable that since the Watchtower committed to work with the Parks Department, over 11 years have passed, the site has seen no improvements, and remains a piece of barren asphalt,” a host of local pols and business leaders wrote in a letter to the organization in December.
It remains to be seen whether $5.5 million will be enough to take the park from drab to fab, however — the parks department said it can’t estimate the total costs without a concrete plan for the park in place. Watchtower honchos say they have one ready, based on the city’s most recent requests for the site, which now include a skate park and a multipurpose field.
Those pushing for the park renewal say they also want more details before celebrating, but the pledge is still good news.
“Without seeing the details, that seems like a significant step in the right direction,” said Councilman Steve Levin (D–Boerum Hill), one of the letter-writing pols. “I would like to sit down in a formal way with them and the parks department to see exactly what the plans are.”

*Note that the rezoning raised the value of the WT property. One of the major players responsible for rezoning in New York is a Taurus man (Lorenz Reibling's real estate company) who sits on the board of the Empire State Development Corp.

"The group’s announcement last month that it is selling 85 Jay St. — now incredibly valuable thanks to the residential rezoning".

21

Where does the money come from to operate the Hospital Information network?

by OrphanCrow in

the recent buzz that has hit the online communities concerning the watchtower society and their evil offspring - the jw org - revolves around their apparent financial difficulties.

many factors have been discussed - the real estate flips (and flops), the changes in meetings and field service, the need for donations to cover expenses, the push for donations.

where does the money come from to operate the hospital information network?

OrphanCrow

Coded Logic: When you say "extensive" medical library do you mean a collection of medical papers published on the topic of blood?

I am speaking of the type of library that would be necessary to maintain, in order to draw from, to produce and distribute the type of quasi-journal-volumes that the WTS printed way back in the 70s for distribution to hospitals across Canada (and probably elsewhere) in order to pressure medical doctors to use alternative treatment to blood transfusions. I have a copy of one of those journals and it is notated and marked by the JW men who compiled it - marked on the WTS' copies of the journal articles used from their own library at that time (pre-digital journals and newspapers, etc). It is no mean feat to put together that type of publication. And it was done by the WTS using their own library and manpower.

I am also speaking of the CD productions that the WTS produced to promote alternative treatments to blood - the ones they made before they farmed out noblood promotion to the bloodless JW men like Melseth and company. And the material that is given to doctors and hospitals - lots of it.

I am not speaking about the Watchtower and Awake - those are just the vanilla versions of noblood promotion watered down for the masses - there has been much literature produced for distribution into the medical institutions that far exceeds what is printed in the WT rags.

Are you saying that the WT funds research into bloodless treatments? And that it pays to have that research sent to medical institutes and hospitals?

One of the WTS' greatest resources is their followers - the WTS doesn't need to fund research - they provide the research subjects. Which is a commodity that is valuable beyond calculation. Jehovah's Witnesses have been used for years in clinical trials - providing 'volunteers' for those clinical trials has real financial compensation attached to it. Medical recruiters don't come cheap and people who are enrolled in clinical trials are quite often compensated financially for their participation. My *guess* is that the WTS has been getting compensated for arranging patients for clinical trials and medical studies. And that it has been going on for decades.

No, the WTS wouldn't pay to send their data collection to hospitals - quite the contrary - the data they collect on JW patients would actually be valuable to them as a resource, not an expense - data is worth money to the right people.

As far as being specific as to what the HIS does...well, besides attending FDA hearings on blood technology, they have been involved in promoting blood management networks across the world. The conferences that were held for blood management promotion back in the late 90s and early 2000s were attended by JW doctors who are part of the HIS. The information that trickles down to the JW members is only a tiny part of what the HIS does.

In 2001, several JWs who had come up through the ranks of the HLC established the Society for the Advancement of Blood Management. The SABM. Founded by JWs. And, the first year they were established, guess who received the SABM's President Award? The Watchtower Society. That is one award you won't hear them advertsing.

There is more - but, it is pretty complicated. The world that exists above the local HLC fellows is complex, large, and active. The HLC are just the "publishers" for a huge noblood machine. They are the front men. And they don't even know it. And the ones who do know....likely justify profiting from the blood doctrine by rationalizing that they are "saving" JW lives. Greed does funny things to people's moral compasses.

21

Where does the money come from to operate the Hospital Information network?

by OrphanCrow in

the recent buzz that has hit the online communities concerning the watchtower society and their evil offspring - the jw org - revolves around their apparent financial difficulties.

many factors have been discussed - the real estate flips (and flops), the changes in meetings and field service, the need for donations to cover expenses, the push for donations.

where does the money come from to operate the hospital information network?

OrphanCrow

JWdaughter: My mom got an hour or so with an end who was hired by hospital as regular employee and who led mum through a loooong session involving a blood agreement, mum chose from a lot of options after being totally led by JW hospital employee to which option were acceptable.
Catholic hospital, paid by Medicare and group health.

Yes. The JWs are quite integrated into various medical systems besides the "bloodless clinics" that are managed by JWs. There are far more JWs that work in health care who are influencing JW patients than most people realize.

21

Where does the money come from to operate the Hospital Information network?

by OrphanCrow in

the recent buzz that has hit the online communities concerning the watchtower society and their evil offspring - the jw org - revolves around their apparent financial difficulties.

many factors have been discussed - the real estate flips (and flops), the changes in meetings and field service, the need for donations to cover expenses, the push for donations.

where does the money come from to operate the hospital information network?

OrphanCrow

Lee Elder: I would not be surprised if the answers to those questions proved to be disturbing as is so often the case with the WTS.

That is why I think it is critical to be asking these (as yet) unanswerable questions now that the charity invesigations are underway in the UK. If the Hospital Information network is, indeed, just another part of the WT monolith, there could be some uncomfortable questions raised about the origin of the funding and the purpose of that department.

It could prove to be very interesting if the financial connections between the bloodless industry and the WTS were scrutinized as the result of investigating the WTS' "charitable" work. And yes, I think it would raise some perplexing ethical issues, particularly when the shifting blood doctrine is intimately tied up with the supply of medical subjects for paticular pharma concerns.

21

Where does the money come from to operate the Hospital Information network?

by OrphanCrow in

the recent buzz that has hit the online communities concerning the watchtower society and their evil offspring - the jw org - revolves around their apparent financial difficulties.

many factors have been discussed - the real estate flips (and flops), the changes in meetings and field service, the need for donations to cover expenses, the push for donations.

where does the money come from to operate the hospital information network?

OrphanCrow

Vidiot: the WT's somewhat-less-than-six-degrees-seperated "bloodless" med-tech industry itself.

Are you suggesting....*gasp*...that the WTS gets money from the same bloodless industry that would profit from leaving the blood doctrine in place? Wouldn't that create some ethical issues? Conflict of interest?

How does the Hospital Information Services claim to be "charitable" and "for the public good" when it obviously serves the interests of only JWs and those invested in those concerns? Or...does it only serve the JWs? Who profits from being donators to the Hospital Information network?

BTW...

:) *happy Sunday morning!