Posts by OrphanCrow

3

why can't I sign out?

by thereishope in

thanks for any help in signing out..

OrphanCrow

Try clearing your cache and cookies.

It should sign you out automatically - it works for me

3

"The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements" - a book by Eric Hoffer

by OrphanCrow in

i have just finished reading "the true believer: thoughts on the nature of mass movements" by eric hoffer.

the book was published in 1951, during the cold war, yet the theories and principles, that hoffer proposes to explain the phenomena of mass movements, are as relevant today as they were then.

(there are several threads on this forum that discuss aspects of hoffer's statements and theories.).

OrphanCrow

sbf: I don't think JWs are a mass movement though, are they?

The JW religion sees itself as a mass movement. We can see from the outside that they are simply a religious cult with delusions...but the delusion of being a mass movement is one that the JWs themselves readily adopt.

The WT has tried to create a mass movement and they have been somewhat successful in a limited way.

Yes...I would classify the WTS' religion as a "mass movement". It might not be a big mass movement, but one nonetheless.

3

"The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements" - a book by Eric Hoffer

by OrphanCrow in

i have just finished reading "the true believer: thoughts on the nature of mass movements" by eric hoffer.

the book was published in 1951, during the cold war, yet the theories and principles, that hoffer proposes to explain the phenomena of mass movements, are as relevant today as they were then.

(there are several threads on this forum that discuss aspects of hoffer's statements and theories.).

OrphanCrow

I have just finished reading "The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements" by Eric Hoffer. The book was published in 1951, during the Cold War, yet the theories and principles, that Hoffer proposes to explain the phenomena of mass movements, are as relevant today as they were then. (There are several threads on this forum that discuss aspects of Hoffer's statements and theories.)

This book is available as a free downloadable pdf here: http://evelynbrooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/The_True_Believer_-_Eric_Hoffer.pdf

In "True Believer", Hoffer examines the nature of the type of individual that is attracted to mass movements, and he concludes that it is the frustrated individual that is the prime target for conversion to a mass movement, whether that movement be political, sociological, or religious in nature. Hoffer identifies this frustration as the primary individual motivator - frustration with the self and a desire to eliminate or reduce the 'self' - that allows a mass movement to supply the answers for their lack of control over self and environment.

I highly recommend this book to be added to a person's reading list. This book gives a person a template to understand the phenomena of mass movements (religion/cults), why people are attracted to them and why it is so difficult to reach people who are trapped within the confines of an organization.

There are many excellent quotes in Hoffer's book, but the one I want to highlight is one about doctrine. The WT doctrine consumes people - both in and out of the cult. The hours and time invested into de-tangling the obscure and confusing doctrine of the WT is a necessary exercise for most in order to de-program cult thinking, but, ultimately...it is futile to expect to truly understand WT doctrine. The objective of doctrine is not that it is valid...the objective is to obscure the truth in order for it to become credible (or be confusing enough to take up inordinate amounts of time of those who want to un-ravel it). Once a person understands doctrine, it not longer requires belief. And belief in the unknown - in the unknowable future and the unknowable past - is vital in order for a mass movement to take place.

The WT's doctrine is deliberately obscure - they cannot afford to have their followers truly understand it.

The effectiveness of a doctrine does not come from its meaning but from its certitude. No doctrine however profound and sublime will be effective unless it is presented as the embodiment of the one and only truth. It must be the one word from which all things are and all things speak. Crude absurdities, trivial nonsense and sublime truths are equally potent in readying people for self-sacrifice if they are accepted as the sole, eternal truth.

It is obvious, therefore, that in order to be effective a doctrine must not be understood, but has rather to be believed in. We can be absolutely certain only about things we do not understand. A doctrine that is understood is shorn of its strength. Once we understand a thing, it is as if it had originated in us. And, clearly, those who are asked to renounce the self and sacrifice it cannot see eternal certitude in anything which originates in that self. The fact that they understand a thing fully impairs its validity and certitude in their eyes.

The devout are always urged to seek the absolute truth with their hearts and not their minds. “It is the heart which is conscious of God, not the reason.” Rudolph Hess, when swearing in the entire Nazi party in 1934, exhorted his hearers: “Do not seek Adolph Hitler with your brains; all of you will find him with the strength of your hearts.” When a movement begins to rationalize its doctrine and make it intelligible, it is a sign that its dynamic span is over; that it is primarily interested in stability. For, as will be shown later (Section 106), the stability of a regime requires the allegiance of the intellectuals, and it is to win them rather than to foster self-sacrifice in the masses that a doctrine is made intelligible.

If a doctrine is not unintelligible, it has to be vague; and if neither unintelligible nor vague, it has to be unverifiable. One has to get to heaven or the distant future to determine the truth of an effective doctrine. When some part of a doctrine is relatively simple, there is a tendency among the faithful to complicate and obscure it. Simple words are made pregnant with meaning and made to look like symbols in a secret message. There is thus an illiterate air about the most literate true believer. He seems to use words as if he were ignorant of their true meaning. Hence, too, his taste for quibbling, hair-splitting and scholastic tortuousness.

27

Bunker Video: Why No Concluding Scene?

by Wild_Thing in

jw
friends

i was wondering why they ended the "bunker video" as they did ... with an armed militia finding the jws huddled in the corner of the basement ... fade to black.

the jws watching don't know what happened after that.

did they kill them?

OrphanCrow

I had the opportunity to reconstruct the ending of the bunker video for two JW men who wanted to talk to me yesterday.

I told them that the video they had watched last weekend at their assembly about the GT was a lie made up by the corporation in New York that they represented. And that the truth of the matter is that the JW elders are going to be arrested for breaking the law concerning not reporting child abuse. I asked them if they knew about a San Diego California court levying a $4000 a day fine against the WTS and that each and every day (as we were standing there talking, in fact!) it was going up until the WT turned over the documents that the court is requesting - and why, why would the WTS not turn over the documents unless they were trying to hide something?

Heh...the one fellow said to me, with a sick smirk, "My, my...you sure have a LOT of information, don't you?"

I replied, "Yes, I sure do. I can get my information from wherever I want to - I don't have to listen a bunch of men in New York telling what I can and cannot read. I have freedom of the mind, do you? Will you look up California and the WTS when you get home?"

I also told them that it wasn't any of their business what my name was - they hadn't told me their names and besides...why did they want my name? To tell New York? To mark me? To keep records on me? To be able to report that they had a 'shepherding call'? My only regret is that I didn't think fast enough. I should have told them that I am a transsexual and my name is Kevin....

75

JWs anti gay video reaches over 1,000,000 views on youtube

by alanv in

the anti gay video that watchtower recently produced has now had over 1,000,000 views.

of those who selected to like or dislike the video, over 92% disliked it.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnk52bu92oe.

OrphanCrow

cofty: I provided two examples from this thread of calls for greater restrictions on freedom of religion.
One from DJS and one from Orphan Crow.

Huh??????

I did that???

27

Bunker Video: Why No Concluding Scene?

by Wild_Thing in

jw
friends

i was wondering why they ended the "bunker video" as they did ... with an armed militia finding the jws huddled in the corner of the basement ... fade to black.

the jws watching don't know what happened after that.

did they kill them?

OrphanCrow

The unwritten ending:

"Knock knock"

"Who's there?"

"Storm troopers"

"Storm troopers who?"

"Open up you fucking idiots. We are evacuating the area and taking everyone to a place of safety until the storm passes. Why the hell aren't you on the bus already??? Let's get going! Kevin told us you were down here...."

70

Did I open the gate to the realm of demons?

by redpilltwice in

this is what happened.

i had a sore tendon in my wrist.

i could work with it, but nevertheless the pain was there.

OrphanCrow

redpilltwice: You see, I know exactly where my pain came from. It was a physical cause and effect and has been there for years since the very moment it happened. In my memory, I can still pinpoint that moment and remember every detail and everything that was involved.

So, my question to you: why did you still feel pain "for years"? Was your injury not healed already?

I would propose to you that your pain was unnecessary - it was, for lack of a better term, "psychic pain"...phantom pain. Pain felt that was no longer there. You just thought it was - your brain was tricking you. The memory of the physical trauma was so strong that the pain "imprint' was still there. That imprint got removed...that is why the pain disappeared. You (your brain) didn't need it anymore - you were given permission to heal it and your brain responded. Your brain was probably tired of feeling all that pain for so long

70

Did I open the gate to the realm of demons?

by redpilltwice in

this is what happened.

i had a sore tendon in my wrist.

i could work with it, but nevertheless the pain was there.

OrphanCrow

Then we have examples of animals that show amazing abilities to vacate an area before a storm and so on.

Barometric changes in the environment. Eardrums attuned to those changes...and a brain that perceives the changes as danger. Look to the birds...they will tell you if a storm is coming

70

Did I open the gate to the realm of demons?

by redpilltwice in

this is what happened.

i had a sore tendon in my wrist.

i could work with it, but nevertheless the pain was there.

OrphanCrow

Millie, I agree with what you are saying. I know people who seem to have an abundance of electrical energy that flows through them and are able to use this electricity to stimulate other people's circulatory systems.

Eh...it runs in my family. My mother has hands like that and so does my son. Healing hands, apparently...that is what they have been told they have. Must be true...my mother made a good living from reflexology and massage. Her massages didn't work on me but...I think she really just wanted to hurt me. Healing hands can do the opposite too

70

Did I open the gate to the realm of demons?

by redpilltwice in

this is what happened.

i had a sore tendon in my wrist.

i could work with it, but nevertheless the pain was there.

OrphanCrow

AndersAnderson: I tend to think like OrphanCrow on this, but I can't offer any evidence to back it up

Two very good books about pain:

When Pain Strikes edited by Bill Burns, Cathy Busby, Kim Sawchuk

The Body in Pain: The Making and Unmaking of the World by Elaine Scarry