Posts by OrphanCrow

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

OrphanCrow

richard: Please explain to me in the ARC transcript where the due process is? Explain where the cross-examination of witnesses is? Show me where Watchtower was able to present evidence and their own witnesses? In a court of law an expert witness' testimony can be given as much or as little weight as a jury member deems but cannot be and is not just dismissed off hand because that expert witness is paid by one side or the other, that is how expert witnesses work.

Yup. I was right.

Stupid it is, then.

You fail to see the forest for the trees, don't you?

First things first. The "expert" has to really be an expert. You cant put any old idiot on the stand and expect their "testimony" to be accepted. And their testimony has to be relevant.

Applewhite clearly failed to deliver on either of those points.

Yup.

Stupid.

5

Another One - UK JW pedophile faces deportation

by OrphanCrow in

man faces deportation after fondling young boy he met through church.

(full article at link).

fiscal depute ross carvel had told the court that komorowski became friendly with the parents of the child as they were members of the same church and were jehovah’s witnesses.“they became concerned about the behaviour of komorowski when their son’s behaviour changed.

OrphanCrow

Man faces deportation after fondling young boy he met through church

(full article at link)

Fiscal depute Ross Carvel had told the court that Komorowski became friendly with the parents of the child as they were members of the same church and were Jehovah’s Witnesses.
“They became concerned about the behaviour of Komorowski when their son’s behaviour changed. He had nightmares and on one occasion he took his mother’s hand and put it on his crotch area.
“There was a confrontation with Komorowski who spoke with a number of elders at the church. He admitted the offence. Then the father told the police after Komorowski was expelled.
“At the police interview, he said he knew what he had done was wrong but he did not know why he did it.” Mr Carvel added.

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

OrphanCrow

richard: ...other than one expert witnesses that the Commission dismissed off hand because her testimony did not conform to their findings

Earlier you had said that you read all the ARC documents.

What a load of crock - either you didn't read them or you are just stupid.

Applewhite was an idiot without the qualifications to make her any sort of "expert" other than an expert ass kisser for the WT.

55

Quality of newer membership

by Lostandfound in

on a previous post mamacita29 pointed up the low quality of new jw converts.. is the quality falling even more as the society use lower than low meeting, talks, broadcasts etc.. when i was active initially the organisation and standards seemed totally different today.

i have seen hard working intelligent elders fall by death or exhaustion.

the younger generation that came along never really grasped responsibility hence shortage of good elders, never mind the watered down to almost nothing quality of meetings.

OrphanCrow

This guy is in charge of the org's Writing Department:

Jackson is a high school drop out - he left school at 14 (some sources say 13 or 15) to become a missionary.

The org's literature has to be understandable to someone incapable of graduating high school - that is who is in charge. You can't expect anything better than simplified language from someone like this.

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

OrphanCrow

Vidiot: ...I still think that if it were revealed - and confirmed - that there were/are abusers in the very highest echelons of the Org (or riddled throughout at the grassroots level, for that matter, as the pedo database would no doubt reveal)

I have thought of this off and on and recently realized that the probability of there being victims of sex abuse at the higher echelons is a higher probability than there being abusers.

Which, too, would explain the secrecy and reluctance to comply with turning over the records. Who would be named as victims? And by who? The victims are the ones entrusted with keeping the secret. Whose secret are they keeping?

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

OrphanCrow

Richard. You have come on here and taken the position that the court cases are a vindictive act undertaken by people who want to take down the Watchtower.

This is where you are wrong.

You have stated that laws need to change, and what you fail to realize is that it is these cases that fail, the ones that pile up and pile up...all failures...are what lead to a final and decisive victory in changing laws. The laws that you say need to change. That change comes from the victims speaking out. Over and over again.

Don't be myopic - just take a look at that org you are defending. Look to the way they have fought their legal battles. Loss after loss after loss. All the way to the Supreme Court sometimes. And then a victory. Which they crow about for like...forever.

That is what the court cases, instigated by child sex abuse victims, that are being lost are doing - they are paving the way for some smart lawyer to take the WT by the tail and shake it. In a Supreme Court ruling would be nice.

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

OrphanCrow

Richard: Yes I have read the ARC report.

And you still don't understand why the victims are taking the Watchtower Society to court?????

You still think the court cases should be dropped? After reading all those documents? After reading the transcripts and statements of the victims?

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

OrphanCrow

Richard, you said "I have also researched this issue with actual reviews of briefs, decisions on summary judgments and other legal proceedings."

Have you researched these documents? Any of them at all?

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney

Or are you a one-sided wonder who doesn't bother to find out how complex this issue really is?

58

watchtower lapel pins

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i've been noticing lots of these pins on lapels.

i could almost understand the jwdotorg pin because the new mantra is to go to the website.

but why on earth are they sporting a building?

OrphanCrow

Richard: I said no corporation associated with watchtower meaning that watchtower is not making money off of these items. I made that point because people on this thread immediately said it was a way for watchtower to make more money. I said what I said to highlight watchtower does not make money off of them.

Don't be silly. Of course the WT makes money from them.

It is called "donations". You know...from those guys who are stepping out on their own and making coin from selling those popular little marketing devices.

The org likes it. Free advertising and more money for those "donation" boxes.

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

OrphanCrow

Richard: OrphanCrow. I did not insult any person. I gave my opinion.

You can call it an opinion if you want...but it doesn't change the insult that you levied against the entire forum when you stated that opinion.

Do I think that the right way is by suing them? I do not. I have also researched this issue with actual reviews of briefs, decisions on summary judgments and other legal proceedings. So many people here think that it is an automatic win against Watchtower, but honestly there are more losses than there are wins.

You still don't get it, do you?

The court cases are for the victims to get redress for the harm that they have suffered. Period.

And, regardless if there are California and other courts that can't see the forest for the trees, there are legal systems that do agree that the WT is responsible for the harm that many victims have suffered.

And yes...there certainly are more losses than wins. You have that correct. It is very difficult for victims to get the redress that they deserve. Many victims have lost and most of them didn't even have to go to court to chalk up their losses. All they had to do was be in touch in some way with the WTS for them to lose.