Posts by OrphanCrow

90

Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial

by darkspilver in

day 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.

jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.

february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.

OrphanCrow

steve: Moreover, those legal arguments aside, it would not be unusual to expect that a religious group - any religious group - that claims exclusivity of standing with God - would lead the way in protecting children or at least show a robust willingness to learn how to do so, not fob off child safety as the concern of parents.

Exactly. The WT relies on the argument that the sanctity of the family is paramount. They have fought numerous court battles over the blood transfusion ban for minor children using this position and are now using the same umbrella to avoid responsibility for not reporting child sex abuse.

When an issue arise that concerns child sex abuse, the WT attempts to hold the parents accountable and blame them for not protecting their children. Yet, the WT will turn around and claim, in their response to the ARC, that the child sex abuse problems that they are experiencing within their group are mainly "familial" cases and because of that, the WT is not responsible for fostering child sex abuse.

The first key submission made on behalf of the Watchtower & Ors was that:
• familial child sexual abuse is not institutional sexual abuse, as has been acknowledged by the Royal Commission. Similarly it is self-evident that, when child sexual abuse occurs outside ‘institutional’ contexts as defined, the response to it does not fall within the Terms of Reference of this Royal Commission
• the Royal Commission proceeds on the basis that, when an allegation of familial sexual abuse becomes known to an elder and is subsequently scripturally investigated by congregation elders, it ceases to be familial abuse and becomes institutional abuse. This conflation of familial and institutional sexual abuse does not accord with the Terms of Reference.

Apparently, according to the WT, child sex abuse is a "family issue". They claim that the parents are supposed to protect the children yet the WT claims that the majority of the child sex abuse cases occur within JW families. How does that work? The same ones who are supposed to report the abuse are the same ones that are likely doing the abuse to begin with?

24

Last Week I Got A Call From An Elder I Haven't Seen In 20 Years...😳

by minimus in

jw
friends

while i was at work i got a phone call from an elder i haven't seen in decades!

he started asking me questions about my family, my ex, and told me that he heard i "was no longer in the truth".

i got a little defensive and he quickly picked up on it and assured me his call had nothing to do with checking up on me regarding the religion.

OrphanCrow

minimus: When I thought he was going to a place I didn't want him to go I said to him I'm not going to answer any of your questions because I've been on the other side before and I know what to expect and that's when he laughed and promised me assured me that was not his intention whatsoever-

Ha. He's lying.

I am with Blondie on this one - 20 years and he saved your number just so he can call now? For a friendly "chat"? Yeah....right. I hear there is a nice bridge for sale somewhere too

9

"Are Jehovah’s Witnesses free to make informed decisions about blood transfusions?" - Canadian article

by OrphanCrow in

this is an excellent article written by 3 faculty members in the cumming school of medicine, university of calgary - juliet guichon, ian mitchell and christopher doig.. http://healthydebate.ca/opinions/blood-transfusions-jehovahs-witnesses#comment-2866324.

it is encouraging to know that the voices that have been raised against the blood ban are being heard.

the work that so many people have done is now bearing fruit.. in 20th century canada, jehovah’s witnesses were persecuted for their proselytizing and wartime pacifism.

OrphanCrow

nojw: go to visit/search youtube channel the last watchman

Why?? The "last watchman" has absolutely nothing to do with this topic.

Relevance? I don't see any relevance to this thread.

12

It just seems that there isn't enough in it to pin it to them

by joe134cd in

i was just thinking this morning about the court cases wt is facing and although i do think there are enough of them is there just enough in them to pin it to wt.

i sort of get the feeling a lot of these cases are revolving around the definition of terms and also an attitude of could-a, should-a, would-a.

even with the latest example it raised more questions than solutions and i'm guessing that's why it was settled out of court.

OrphanCrow

OnTheWayOut: Their "Call Headquarters first" order is clearly designed to minimize damage when untrained elders get involved. It should be designed to protect children first.

That "call to headquarters" is simply a legal maneuver that establishes a "client-lawyer" relationship between the elders and the WT Society. That way, if the clergy-penitent defense fails, they always have that client-lawyer privilege to fall back on to claim confidentiality.

The elders aren't calling for legal advice per se - they are calling for protection from disclosure.

Add in lawyers and it's tough to win cases. I don't blame victims for settling cases and moving on with their lives.

Of course the victims should settle. A settlement is a win for the victims.

46

jehovah witness elder molest his daughter ... Lynn Gardner

by jaydee in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boizyklif4q.

OrphanCrow

Fisherman: Her story cannot
be verified from just listening
to her accusations.
Maybe they are
true and maybe
they are not.
Your guess is
as good as mine.
Unless you show proof.
That is only one side
of the story presented here,
a sad story,
but that is all it is.
In all fairness though, an impartial
arbitrator must hear the side
of the defense also to......................................................................................................................... decide.

You are missing the entire point of this woman's video.

This video is NOT about establishing guilt of the father. It is establishing that the girl child that this abuse happened to is NOT guilty, regardless of whether you believe her "side" of the "story" or not.

This woman is using her voice - she is being present - she is real and alive and no longer content to keep an abuser's secrets for him. This video is about HER experience. It is not about the abuser's guilt (or not).

This video is about a victim taking steps to heal and your response, Fisherman, is repugnant to all victims who are struggling to find voice and meaning in a life that has been destroyed.

And no, it is not necessary "for an impartial arbitrator must hear the side of the defense also". Not in the least. The story is real to the victim and the victim's voice stands as testimony to her experience and if you think that she is making it up...then you are an insensitive jerk with no understanding of how difficult it would have been for this particular victim to speak of such horrific abuse at the hands of someone who is supposed to be her main protector.

52

Reveal article: Jehovah’s Witnesses settle suit alleging cover-up of child sex abuse

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.revealnews.org/blog/jehovahs-witnesses-settle-lawsuit-alleging-coverup-of-child-sex-abuse/.

by trey bundy / february 17, 2017 .

the jehovah’s witnesses settled a lawsuit this week brought by a pennsylvania woman who says the religion’s leaders covered up sexual abuse she suffered as a teenager.. the settlement came five days into a trial in which stephanie fessler, a former jehovah’s witness, claimed the religion’s parent corporation violated pennsylvania’s child abuse reporting laws by instructing local leaders – known as elders – not to report her allegations to police.. according to fessler, a middle-aged jehovah’s witness woman, terry monheim, began sexually abusing her when she was 14. at 15, fessler disclosed the abuse to her parents.

OrphanCrow

RO: Everyone has the same rights under the law, whether you like them or not, and Watchtower has every right to defend themselves, with any means that are at their disposal.

You are absolutely right. And in this case, the WT took advantage of what was at their disposal: they settled with the plaintiff. They paid out. They defended themselves by reaching in their pockets.

And that is what the legal system allows for - the defendant has the option to defend themselves with a settlement that is satisfactory to the plaintiff.

90

Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial

by darkspilver in

day 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.

jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.

february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.

OrphanCrow

Fisherman: What I find incredible is how people only object to the setting. I suppose it would be ok for some people if a person confessed child abuse to a Catholic priest or a pastor or somebody else other than a jw elder. That is ok as long as that person remains secret about it. Say a couple of hail maries and hush is the word and that is ok vs the same man confessing the sin under a JC setting, that is not ok. Makes a lot of sense.

What is truly incredible is that anybody thinks that a judicial process, where the JW elders seek out a potential offender and seek out evidence that will prove or disprove the offender's guilt or innocence - after a potential victim lays a complaint - is anywhere near the same as a penitent seeking out a priest for abolition of what they personally feel are their perceived sins. That is what is incredible.

It is not the setting per se, Fisherman, it is the processes themselves, and the intent, which are entirely different.

*to add - in the "setting" that you are describing (and I assume that to be a Catholic confessional after your reference to hail mary's), the clergy never goes out and tries to establish guilt of the one confessing, the priest never seeks out a confession for what they may perceive to be a sin, the clergy never investigates a person who confesses, they don't go out and gather witnesses and go to the victim to ask them to confront the one who "confessed". There is no accusation process in the setting that you are trying to compare the JWs investigation process to.

90

Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial

by darkspilver in

day 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.

jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.

february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.

OrphanCrow

Fisherman: judicial cases (aka clergy/ penitent)

wow

Gotta love Watchtower Speak and how they have bent word usage to their standards

Isn't that sort of the same as saying...ummm...apples (aka oranges/pears)

90

Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial

by darkspilver in

day 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.

jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.

february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.

OrphanCrow

RO: because Orphan Crow made the assertion that Watchtower can and does monitor their members all the time, but chooses not to act when it comes to pedophilia.

No. That is not what I said. It is sort of what I said...but not what I said.

Yes, the Watchtower can and does monitor their members outside of "official" JW activities.

But...it is the next part of your sentence that reveals how you twist the meaning of what has been said, Richard. This is where you show your greased pig persona:

"...but choses not to act when it comes to pedophilia". That is the part where you use hyperbole to make your case.

I was presenting another institution's policies surrounding the protection of minors and stating that the Watchtower doesn't have anything at all in place to protect victims of child sex abuse. You had said that the WT can't monitor activities in a person's home and I was talking about how the WT could certainly make certain behaviors a disfellowshipping or disciplinary offense - such as make it policy that minor children never have unsupervised sleepovers with an adult who is not their parent or specified guardian.

The WT could have certain behaviors prohibited - of course they can't stop all bad behavior (don't be ridiculous, Richard) but they could at least define what behaviors are not to be engaged in - like having minor children over for sleepovers. Which is no different than making it an offense to sleepover at a home of a JW of the opposite sex. Which the WT defines as bad behavior. And that is where the WT could take a more proactive position in making membership in their institution responsible for the protection of minors. They could define the behavior that puts a child at risk and make it an offense for adults to engage in those defined behaviors - like having sleepovers.

Richard, I did not say exactly what you said I did - you have taken my words and twisted them slightly to put them out of context.

You are the one who emphasizes "facts" above all else and yet you have a difficult time in interpreting and using "facts" when they are presented to you.

90

Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial

by darkspilver in

day 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.

jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.

february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.

OrphanCrow

Yes neverajw, that is exactly the problem. The WT wants their cake and eat it too.

Richard claims that the WT can't regulate their members behavior outside of "official" JW activities and that is wrong. It isn't that the WT can't do it - it is that they won't do it when it comes to monitoring activities that could put a minor child in danger.