The worst, though, the very very worst of the whole performance was when O'Brien pulled out his silver sword and gave a witness to the room. And to everyone watching.
He read a frikking bibble scripture!
Painful, utterly painful
OrphanCrow
JoinedPosts by OrphanCrow
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ARC Live Streaming site ?
by Gayle inwhat is the exact live streaming site for the arc today in sydney?
i hope someone or more here will be watching and giving info/quips throughout the case.
also, will someone here or elsewhere be able to 'save' a video of this (all or part).
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ARC Live Streaming site ?
by Gayle inwhat is the exact live streaming site for the arc today in sydney?
i hope someone or more here will be watching and giving info/quips throughout the case.
also, will someone here or elsewhere be able to 'save' a video of this (all or part).
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OrphanCrow
MuddyWaters: And it was bizarre to hear O'Brien talking about "redress" or money going to be given to WT's victims of child sexual abuse to help them with their care or counselling.
At the end, it looked like McClellan seemed almost eager to unleash some punitive measures, you could see him flexing his hands and getting ready to give WT a good what-for. Did anyone else get that impression...?I think McClelland was responding to O'Brien taking the position that the WTS rejects the Commission's scope of their terms of reference applying to them. In the report the ARC released, they rejected the WTS' claim that most of the cases were familial and they shouldn't be included under "institutional abuse". The Commission had made it clear that they did not accept the WTS' position yet here they were - asserting that the ARC was still wrong and they are right. O'brien went down with the ship.
I think that the WTS is going to try to use that argument for not paying out redress to claims - that they weren't responsible. That is wasn't part of the "terms of reference" that the WTS seems to think they have the right to determine.
finallysomepride: Just watched the Uniting Church reply, what a huge contrast, they make jws look like idiotsThey are idiots.
They don't even have a clue as to how to properly reference and source material. They just did like they always do - they threw some sort of obscure, barely related source material down at the bottom of the page and hoped nobody would follow it up. And, when they were called out on their dumb reference, they offered some dumb excuse. But they can't admit that they are just stupid and don't know correct referencing styles and formats.
They exist in WT land and WT speak world and can't for the life of them figure out why nobody is buying their shit
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Taped Broadcast of March 10, 2017 ARC hearing - youtube
by OrphanCrow inthank you to john redwood for making this available so quickly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzqvj0z7_ya.
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OrphanCrow
Thank you to John Redwood for making this available so quickly
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ARC Live Streaming site ?
by Gayle inwhat is the exact live streaming site for the arc today in sydney?
i hope someone or more here will be watching and giving info/quips throughout the case.
also, will someone here or elsewhere be able to 'save' a video of this (all or part).
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OrphanCrow
MuddyWaters: And LOVED the point about the age of consent, and that if the law had a specific limit for that, then why not simply follow the law...? (They were talking about a minor who could be found "guilty" of sexual misconduct because they would be close to the legal age... And Mr. Steward and McClellan tried to press them on what, exactly, would be an age considered to be "responsible" (or giving consent)....?
I think that O'Brien inadvertently answered that later in his testimony. When the issue of shunning following disassociation was being discussed, he made the remark that someone who was baptized had made that commitment when they were an adult or "approaching adulthood" (the exact same phrase used in the first discussion concerning age of consent). So, O'brien said that baptism was done by those "approaching adulthood" - not yet adults but close. How close? See this thread here for boasting in the March 2017 of children getting baptized at ten years of age.
If that is the litmus test of "approaching adulthood" - the age of baptism - it isn't difficult to see where the problem lies.
The WTS promotes a distorted understanding of "child" and "adult".
When will it resume??
I think that was it. There were only the two witnesses presenting. They did that - they answered all the questions - well, sort of and not at all sometimes, badly mostly - and now we wait to see if the Commission responds. I would think that will take a bit of time for them to put together, if that is the plan.
The WT duo said the WTS has a publication about to be released - that is supposed to be out shortly. A procedural handbook for congregation members on how to handle child abuse. For Australia only
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Baptism at 10 years of age! March 2017 broadcast
by stuckinarut2 in(i wanted to put this in the child abuse section of the forum!).
we have seen that during the march 2017 broadcast, m stephen lett has openly praised children who get baptised as young as 10!.
so lets summarize why it is wrong to push child baptism (not far off "infant baptism" that jws condemn other churches for).
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OrphanCrow
stuckinarut: (I wanted to put this in the child abuse section of the forum!)
After watching the ARC hearing tonight, it certainly could belong in that section.
O'Brien claimed that anyone who got baptized was either an adult or "approaching adulthood" and so they came under shunning sanctions if they disassociated.
Obviously, baptism at 10 years of age indicates a refusal to accept the legal definition of "minor" if they think that a ten year old is "approaching adulthood".
The WTS fosters a distorted view of "child" and "adult". No wonder they have a hard time defining appropriate relationships within their congregations.
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ARC Live Streaming site ?
by Gayle inwhat is the exact live streaming site for the arc today in sydney?
i hope someone or more here will be watching and giving info/quips throughout the case.
also, will someone here or elsewhere be able to 'save' a video of this (all or part).
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OrphanCrow
That was painful.
Weird, pathetic, and predictable.
Truly painful. Like watching someone at the dentist.
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The A.R.C. broadcast on March 10. When to watch in your time zone.
by ScenicViewer inplanning on viewing or recording the live stream of the australian royal commission's investigation of watchtower on march 10, 2017?
i believe the stream begins at 10 am aedt (australian eastern daylight time); you will need to figure out when that is in your local time zone.
here is a time zone converter.
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OrphanCrow
5 pm CST March 9
The witness list has been released (thx to zeb for posting this on another thread) and there are only two witnesses who will appear:
Terrence O'Brien and Rodney Spinks.
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What is the basis for advising “Don’t pursue higher studies”?
by venus intwo elders who visited my friend last week encouraged her not to pursue higher studies.
it seems they are dishing out the same old stuff: “the end is imminent, and this is the time to do more in the service; hence don’t waste your resources on higher studies.”.
i wonder whether there was some official communiqué (something that is sent out recently like letter to the elders, or kingdom ministry article …).
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OrphanCrow
RainbowTroll: This is a very old policy that goes back decades. There is nothing new about it.
The policy is older than decades. It dates back to the days when the International Correspondence School was being established and was being promoted as a way of getting an education in the comfort of your own home. Over a hundred years ago.
Two of the textbook writers for the ICS were also writers for the Watchtower Society - Clayton J. Woodworth and George Fisher. The early format of question and answer in the WT magazine and in the Studies of the Scriptures was based on the ICS model. Studying the Watchtower material would give you a "Bible education" and qualify you to become a colporteur that could sell a program of Bible Study to others - "in the comfort of your own home". Learning a trade as opposed to a university education was promoted in the Golden Age magazine. It was a double whammy for the ICS textbook writers who also wrote for the WT.
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The Danger of Settlements
by Tech49 ini was pondering the recent influx of lawsuits against wt, specifically in regards to the child abuse cases (ie.
conti, fessler, lopez, etc).. in each of these, wt has settled for an "undisclosed" amount, assumed to be in the millions of dollars each.
i know there are many many more cases, subject for a different thread i'm sure.. i was reading something completely unrelated a while back that mentioned the dangers of settlement agreements for a large corporation or business (not just wt).
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OrphanCrow
Finkelstein: Child sexual offenders are notorious to re-offend, that's part of the reason law authorities put them under close watchful regulation even when they are released from jail.
A religoius organization or whatever should not be a place where sexual predators can be harbored or handled indiscriminately by the organizations themselves, which at most is done so to protect the outside image of that organization.Consider too, that the org targets convicted offenders before they are even released from custody.
The JWs conduct organized visits inside the penal system and, it is quite likely that the religion becomes part of some convicts release conditions - where the elders continue those Bible Studies they started on the inside.
Apparently, from what I have read about the JWs' prison visits, the religion acts as sponge for some offenders while they are still in jail. Some prisons have active congregations that recruit and hold meetings inside. Becoming a JW provides a protective space for them upon release. Parole approved activities - hanging out with the JW congregation. In the company of those elders who studied with them before they were released from jail.
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Joachim Boldt - Two More Retractions for WT's bloodless "expert"
by OrphanCrow infrom retraction watch:.
when you have 94 retractions, what's two more?.
attention joachim boldt: the 1990s are calling, and they want their papers back.the annals of thoracic surgery has retracted two papers from the early 1990s on which boldt was the first author – bringing the retraction tally for the disgraced german anesthesiologist to 96, by our count.
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OrphanCrow
For a pdf download of a list of all Boldt's clinical trials that were under review in 2011:
Editors-in-Chief Statement Regarding Published Clinical Trials
Conducted without IRB Approval by Joachim Boldt
And a review of retractions in Jan 2013:
To study journals' responses to a request from the State Medical Association of Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany, to retract 88 articles due to ethical concerns, and to check whether the resulting retractions followed published guidelines.