Posts by OrphanCrow

27

JW Letter Writing Conspiracy

by freemindfade in

just had a wild conspiracy theory.

get your tin hats everyone.

what if this mass letter writing is all a bethel conspiracy to increase declining service hours?

OrphanCrow

Fisherman: Millions of letters are a lot of letters to shred

You're right. The Russians will probably just burn them.

Easier and less time wasted.

27

JW Letter Writing Conspiracy

by freemindfade in

just had a wild conspiracy theory.

get your tin hats everyone.

what if this mass letter writing is all a bethel conspiracy to increase declining service hours?

OrphanCrow

Yup...I can see it now.

The peak publisher number will increase for next year's yearbook. An all time high for March 2017.

And just think how great it will look on the WT's submissions to the United Nations Human Rights Commissions. And on tax returns - oh! look at all the ministry we engage in! Because...you know...we aren't political at all!

80

Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses launches worldwide campaign againt Russia

by jwleaks in

jehovah's witnesses mobilize global response to threat of ban in russia.

march 21, 2017. https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/.

new york—threatened with an imminent ban on their worship in russia, jehovah’s witnesses are responding with a direct appeal to kremlin and supreme court officials for relief through a global letter-writing campaign.

OrphanCrow

Well, I guess that the WTS' "army" of minions have been called to action. They better get busy. The Supreme Court hearing is scheduled for April 5.

http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2265

I betcha the org has been doing their usual petitioning of "experts" to bolster their position. It hasn't worked before and I don't know why they think it will work this time. The historical documents that the Russian courts will be basing their decision on have already been created.

Oh...wait, maybe the WT does have some new material to submit to the Russian courts. Ha! They could send Putin this video where they get a glowing report from a notable person in the Trump administration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsbjCfWrOwM

Hecce: I am sure that the Russians remember this at the height of the cold war:.................AWAKE SEPTEMBER 8, 1960

And don't forget what the WT published 3 years later, in 1963:

"Babylon the Great Has Fallen God's Kingdom Rules". Who can ever forget the beating that Russia took in the chapter titled "Pouring out the Seven Last Plagues"?

Putin would have been 11 years old when that anti-Russia propaganda book came out. I remember reading that Babylon book when I was only 6 years old and knowing, without question, years later when I was old enough to understand what "politics" meant, that the WTS was not a religion. They had no business saying what they did about Russia in the Babylon book if they were only about religion and "politically neutral". Neutral, my ass.

Maybe the JWs should write their letters this way:

"Dearest Mr. Putin...we are so so so very sorry for being such dickheads to your country by saying Jehovah is going to kill everybody Russian if they don't do what our corporate religion in New York says. All that stuff about how evil Russia is...we were only kidding. And please don't pay any attention to that Kushner guy because you know...we are politically neutral and we only did business with him. Cause we be a church. The one and only right one."

80

Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses launches worldwide campaign againt Russia

by jwleaks in

jehovah's witnesses mobilize global response to threat of ban in russia.

march 21, 2017. https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/.

new york—threatened with an imminent ban on their worship in russia, jehovah’s witnesses are responding with a direct appeal to kremlin and supreme court officials for relief through a global letter-writing campaign.

OrphanCrow

blondie: Now there is a good example of Neutrality....not

Exactly. For all the bluster and assertions that "we are politically neutral", their actions say otherwise.

"Politically neutral" would mean that not only will they not stand with the government, they also don't stand in opposition to the government. And yet JWs in Russia, and everywhere else, go around telling everyone that "government is bad" and that world domination is going to be achieved by following the direction of a bunch of guys in New York. A bunch of guys that their followers think are going to become world rulers with Christ.

How is that not political? To actually claim that it is your religion that will dominate the world is political. The WTS claims to be a religion at the same time that they behave like a political movement.

80

Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses launches worldwide campaign againt Russia

by jwleaks in

jehovah's witnesses mobilize global response to threat of ban in russia.

march 21, 2017. https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/.

new york—threatened with an imminent ban on their worship in russia, jehovah’s witnesses are responding with a direct appeal to kremlin and supreme court officials for relief through a global letter-writing campaign.

OrphanCrow

Haha! I have a feeling that a letter writing campaign isn't going to go over well with Russia.

What a stupid response - to actually do exactly what it is that Russia is pissed off about - evangelism.

When they write their letters, maybe the JWs should try to defend their suicide pacts with the WTS:

(from a 2010 article)

A Russian newspaper reports that the community opposition to blood transfusions has killed 18 people, including eight children. Two investigations opened in Kogalym and Moscow.
Moscow (AsiaNews) - The refusal of blood transfusions by Jehovah's Witnesses has killed 18 people, including eight children. This is the accusation against the religious community, for years the object of persecution and discrimination in Russia, that appeared on the pages of Komsomolskaya Pravda. The newspaper, the most widely read in the Federation, tells the story of of these deaths. According to the newspaper, the authorities have already opened investigations into the death of two children: one in Kogalym the other in Moscow.

If the WTS wants their religion to not be considered an "extremist" organization, they need to stop asking their members to engage in extreme behavior. Committing suicide, in the face of medical doctors who hold a life saving measure in their hands, is not the behavior of sane and rational people. It is extreme behavior that costs real lives and impacts everybody around them.

Freedom of religion is one thing...but the freedom to do what you want by disregarding the laws of the country you are in is quite another. Claiming religious freedom does not give you the right to infringe on other peoples' freedom from religion. Going around telling other people that their religion or way of life is wrong and God only loves JWs is a divisive action, not a unifying one.

I think Russia has a long memory and they aren't ready to forgive the WTS for the campaign they have launched against the "King of the North" in the past. A letter writing campaign mounted by evangelizers is the last thing that will work in this situation. The only thing it is going to do is give JWs an opportunity to fill in their time cards so that the WTS gets their US tax break for engaging in "charitable"/letter writing activity.

And, with the help of all those people in the Western media, the GB can divert attention from all the crap they are trying to pull off everywhere else concerning their keeping child abuse secret.

I think that the GB is welcoming the Russia controversy - get the world to point fingers at Russia and maybe people will ignore what is coming out of Australia and elsewhere about child abuse.

17

Blood problems in Italy

by OrphanCrow in

in february 2017, the european association of jehovah's witnesses made a "submission to un human rights committee subsequent to the adoption of the list of issues on the sixth periodic report of italy".. the 119th session of the human rights committee is currently underway - the dates are march 6 - march 29.. the wts has been trying to get "intesa" status in italy for decades and this latest submission to the un highlights the problems the jws are encountering in italy concerning the blood taboo.. this link will take you to a downloadable word document that is the wt's submission being considered:.

http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/treaties/ccpr/shared%20documents/ita/int_ccpr_css_ita_26670_e.docx.

23676 of 2008: mr grassato (one of jehovah’s witnesses) was unconscious when admitted to the hospital.

OrphanCrow

Fisherman: I read the Italy cases. It seems to me that the Caesar of Italy has already pre-decided on all cases of JW refusing blood when doctors deem it medically necessary.

Yes, it does seem to be that way. It is as though the courts are saying that a religious belief is not a good enough reason to commit suicide in the face of a life saving procedure.

Refusing medical treatment is one thing, but once that decision concerns the refusal of life itself, it becomes a case for "right to die". And, a JW patient who is simply refusing to live would not qualify for "right to die" - they would not be terminal at the time that they chose to die by refusing blood when they signed their cards and would very much be capable of living beyond their death decision if they chose blood.

I think that the so-called "noblood" card should be challenged under right to die laws. If a JW patient doesn't qualify for "right to die", they should not be allowed to refuse a blood transfusion. The decision should rest with the doctor as to whether a life saving procedure is necessary and if that patient does not qualify for "right to die", there should be nothing standing in the way of the doctor's decision to transfuse.

17

Blood problems in Italy

by OrphanCrow in

in february 2017, the european association of jehovah's witnesses made a "submission to un human rights committee subsequent to the adoption of the list of issues on the sixth periodic report of italy".. the 119th session of the human rights committee is currently underway - the dates are march 6 - march 29.. the wts has been trying to get "intesa" status in italy for decades and this latest submission to the un highlights the problems the jws are encountering in italy concerning the blood taboo.. this link will take you to a downloadable word document that is the wt's submission being considered:.

http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/treaties/ccpr/shared%20documents/ita/int_ccpr_css_ita_26670_e.docx.

23676 of 2008: mr grassato (one of jehovah’s witnesses) was unconscious when admitted to the hospital.

OrphanCrow

RO: It is your body you get to decide what medical treatments you allow and which you deny.

I agree. I am all for bodily autonomy. Without question.

With that said, though, I am also strongly in favor of correct information being given to people so that they can exercise the right of bodily autonomy based on what is real as opposed to what they think is real.

For that reason, I am adamantly opposed to people being given incorrect medical advice. The WT does not give correct medical information. They have bolstered their "religious rights" with wrong and incomplete medical advice.

Check this out:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Blood_Transfusions:_How_Safe

If the WT was a bottle of pills, they would be required to display a black box warning for side effects associated with those pills. Yet, they can promote alternatives to blood transfusions and never once articulate the risks involved in choosing those over the safest medical intervention we have - a blood transfusion.

17

Blood problems in Italy

by OrphanCrow in

in february 2017, the european association of jehovah's witnesses made a "submission to un human rights committee subsequent to the adoption of the list of issues on the sixth periodic report of italy".. the 119th session of the human rights committee is currently underway - the dates are march 6 - march 29.. the wts has been trying to get "intesa" status in italy for decades and this latest submission to the un highlights the problems the jws are encountering in italy concerning the blood taboo.. this link will take you to a downloadable word document that is the wt's submission being considered:.

http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/treaties/ccpr/shared%20documents/ita/int_ccpr_css_ita_26670_e.docx.

23676 of 2008: mr grassato (one of jehovah’s witnesses) was unconscious when admitted to the hospital.

OrphanCrow

In February 2017, the European Association of Jehovah's Witnesses made a "Submission to UN Human Rights Committee subsequent to the adoption of the List of Issues on the sixth periodic report of ITALY".

The 119th Session of the Human Rights Committee is currently underway - the dates are March 6 - March 29.

The WTS has been trying to get "intesa" status in Italy for decades and this latest submission to the UN highlights the problems the JWs are encountering in Italy concerning the blood taboo.

This link will take you to a downloadable word document that is the WT's submission being considered:

http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CCPR/Shared%20Documents/ITA/INT_CCPR_CSS_ITA_26670_E.docx

The following court cases, concerning blood refusal, are a large part of the JW's submission that they are being unfairly discriminated against. Keep in mind that these cases are being presented from the point of view of the WT:

32. Court of Cassation, Third Civil Division, no. 4211 of 2007: Mr Setti (one of Jehovah’s Witnesses) was admitted to the hospital fully conscious following a traffic accident. He consented to surgery but instructed his doctors that he absolutely refused blood transfusions. In disregard of that choice, he was transfused during surgery. He sued for damages; his claim was dismissed at trial and on appeal. The Court of Cassation held that his refusal of blood transfusions could be ignored because his medical condition changed during surgery and the doctors could not ‘consult’ him about that change because he was sedated. In other words, although Mr Setti had clearly and precisely instructed doctors of his firm decision to refuse blood transfusions based on his religious conscience, his competent refusal of blood was overturned because the Court of Cassation was of the view that the medical information the doctors provided to him before surgery was insufficient.

34. Court of Cassation, Third Civil Division, judgment no. 23676 of 2008: Mr Grassato (one of Jehovah’s Witnesses) was unconscious when admitted to the hospital. He was carrying in his wallet an advance medical directive refusing blood transfusions. He was transfused while unconscious and developed hepatitis. He sued for the disregard of his personal autonomy and religious conscience. His claim and subsequent appeals were dismissed. In rejecting his appeal, the Court of Cassation ruled that a clear and precise refusal of treatment must “follow and not precede the information [given by the doctors]”. It will only be valid if it is “an ex post refusal and not an ex ante one”. Paradoxically, after holding that Mr Grassato’s advance medical directive was not valid (solely because it was made before and not after he was admitted to hospital), the court concluded: “This, however, does not mean that whenever [one of Jehovah’s Witnesses] is unconscious, he must therefore undergo a medical treatment contrary to his faith. But in such a case … the objection to the health treatment needs to be expressed either by the patient himself by carrying a detailed, accurate, and explicit statement unmistakably testifying his refusal of transfusions even at the risk of his life, or by a different person appointed by him as his agent” (emphasis in original). This was precisely what Mr Grassato had done by means of his advance medical directive.

37. Court of Cassation, First Civil Division, judgment no. 21743 of 2016: Mr. Ciucci (one of Jehovah’s Witnesses)—age 45, married, and a business owner—admitted himself to the hospital for medical care. He instructed his doctors in the clearest of terms that he must not “under ANY circumstances” be given blood transfusions. Hours later, he was sedated for long-term treatment. The next day, Siena court Judge Paulo Bernardini ruled to authorize forced blood transfusions in total disregard of Mr Ciucci’s competent refusal. Judge Bernardini ruled that “health is a primary interest ... to the point that we have to ignore [Mr Ciucci’s] wishes”. Doctors imposed at least 15 blood transfusions on Mr. Ciucci in profound disregard of his religious conscience. Alternatives to blood transfusions (which were available and effective) were not considered. When Mr Ciucci finally regained consciousness, he joined in an urgent appeal filed by his wife and support administrator. The appeal court refused to declare Judge Bernardini’s decision unlawful and, instead, merely discontinued the proceedings. The Supreme Court of Cassation refused to intervene.

41. Court of Milan, Fifth Civil Division, no. 6052/2015 of 13 May 2015: Doctors forcibly transfused a conscious and competent adult woman who is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Relying on Setti and Grassato, the court concluded that although she had repeatedly refused blood transfusions and was conscious when transfused, her refusal could only be considered valid if she had got up from her hospital bed (despite the fact she was suffering a haemorrhage) and walked out of the hospital. Because she did not, the court decided that the doctors were justified in forcing blood transfusions.

42. Court of Brescia, Second Civil Division, no. 1886/2016 of 17 June 2016: A conscious and competent adult woman who is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses was admitted to the hospital for elective surgery. She instructed doctors of her absolute refusal of blood transfusions and provided them with a copy of her advance medical directive. She was forcibly transfused during surgery. She sued for damages. In rejecting her claim, the court relied on Setti and Grossato to conclude her refusal of blood transfusions was not valid. It reasoned that during the doctors’ discussion with the patient, they incorrectly stated there was a ‘possibility’ rather than a ‘probability’ they would consider blood to be necessary during the surgery. The court asserted that this alleged lack of information meant that the adult patient could not give an informed refusal of blood transfusion and therefore these same doctors were justified in forcing blood transfusions.

43. Genoa Court of Appeal, Third Civil Division, decision published 19 July 2016: A conscious and competent adult man who is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, suffering from a chronic bleeding disorder, applied to the Guardianship Judge to confirm his choice of a support administrator in his advance medical directive to ensure he would not be transfused if he ever became unconscious. The Guardianship Judge rejected that application, relying on Grassato (judgment no. 23676/2008) (Doc 36, p. 2). The Court of Appeal agreed, ruling that a support administrator can only be appointed if the beneficiary is legally incapable. It also ruled that such an appointment, even if granted, could not protect the applicant from a forced blood transfusion since doctors can override such a refusal in an alleged ‘life-threatening’ situation.

44. Genoa Court of Appeal, Third Civil Division, decision published 2 May 2015: An unconscious adult man who is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses was admitted to the hospital. He was carrying an advance medical directive refusing blood transfusions which also appointed his wife as support administrator. The wife applied to the Guardianship Judge to confirm her appointment as support administrator. The judge confirmed the wife’s appointment but, relying on Setti (no. 4211/2007) and Grassato (no. 23676/2008), prohibited the wife from refusing consent to blood transfusions notwithstanding the husband’s clear and precise refusal of blood transfusions as stated in his advance medical directive. The Court of Appeal rejected the appeal, claiming it was not within its competence. The case is now pending before the Court of Cassation.

*************

Out of all the cases described in the summation, I found this ruling to be the most compelling:

"...the Court of Cassation ruled that a clear and precise refusal of treatment must “follow and not precede the information [given by the doctors]”. It will only be valid if it is “an ex post refusal and not an ex ante one”."

This is an interesting position to take and one that bypasses the WT's erroneous information that goes into the "informed decision" process. What this ruling does is acknowledge that the WT's information that was given to the patient, before the doctor's consultation, is incomplete and cannot be enough to base a sound medical decision on.

23

How deep is the rot?

by JeffT in

by now it seems obvious that the gb and other leaders of the wtbs are corrupt.

the pedo scandal and various financial schemes are sustained by either lack of concern or greed at the top.

my question is how far down the food chain does this go?

OrphanCrow

DoC: Sorry, Gorby, but I think they're too f***ing stupid to carry off a conspiracy like you suggest. (Both the GB/bOrg and the US Gov't.)

Using the word "conspiracy" implies planning. Of course the WTS didn't necessarily plan on doing nefarious things...things that look like a conspiracy can just happen because they are stupid.

Situations that grow from a seed of deception can evolve into a beast that looks like a conspiracy but wasn't planned as such - it just happens because the beast has been grown from a deceitful seed - the WTS is an organization with corrupt roots and a history of deal making with any entity that can further their cause.

12

Article: Duke makes organ transplants possible for Jehovah's Witnesses, others

by AndersonsInfo in

http://www.wral.com/duke-makes-organ-transplants-possible-for-jehovah-s-witnesses-others/16587988/.

duke makes organ transplants possible for jehovah's witnesses, others.

march 16, 2017. durham, n.c. — according to the organ procurement and transplantation network, only about 2,600 donor hearts become available each year.

OrphanCrow

Hmmmm...that 2006 article, concerning transfusion contracts for JW heart transplant recipients, could explain why this little item from Duke Hospital has significance.

Even though the first heart transplant for a JW was done in 1986, the medical literature has very few cases that follow that. I could find this one published in 1990, of five JW heart transplants in Houston Texas, the heartland of Denton Cooley:

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/594899

Lots of other transplants in the years that follow, but no hearts.

Could it be that the ethical considerations that were highlighted in the journal article I linked were responsible for the silence in published medical journals for heart transplants in JWs for the past 15+ years? And that, indeed, a JW getting a heart is a big deal?

It isn't so much that a heart transplant is possible medically using bloodless methods. That is old news. Of course it is possible - been there, done that, ages ago, in the medical world.

What is a breakthrough, and noteworthy, is a JW patient jumping through the ethical hurdles and actually acquiring a donor heart.