OrphanCrow

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Posts by OrphanCrow

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  14

  South Ossetia declares Jehovah’s Witnesses ‘extremists

  by pleaseresearch in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the supreme court in the breakaway south ossetia has ruled that jehovah’s witnesses is an extremist organization and banned its activities.. when the ruling comes into force in a few days, jehovah’s witnesses members will face up to 10 years in jail for any religious activities such as assembly and distributing literature.. http://dfwatch.net/south-ossetia-jehovahs-witnesses-49295.

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  OrphanCrow

  So this is what happens when the Org doesn't own property in your country. They don't bother to go to court for you, They don't even show up. No letter writing campaign for the South Ossetians. Maybe the Org doesn't consider South Ossetia a "land" worth saving.

  Was there no appeal?
  - No. I think they are influenced by the fact that the same actions were taken in Russia, where their activities are also prohibited. If the ban began with South Ossetia, there would be indignation, they would receive some kind of help from their brethren in the north of Ossetia, in Russia. But now they have no place to wait for support. Therefore, I think that the lack of appeal is natural. You can not keep in the Republic such an organization that is subordinate to the United States. Their center is located there and all that they propagate, works not in the interests of our state. Such people can not be patriots of their country.

  
  - During the trial, did their representatives have any arguments in their defense?
  - They did not come to the meetings, refused to participate in the court sessions, although they were invited. The case was heard in the Supreme Court.

  No letter writing. No fluff pieces submitted to news outlets. No special lawyers sent out from Glen How and Associates. Nothing.
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  23

  JW HLC....a mixed bunch...what has been your experience?

  by Lee Elder in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have had greatly varied experiences with hlc members over the years.

  i was never one myself, but i knew several of them personally.

  most struck me as being generally decent human beings.

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  OrphanCrow

  Fisherman: Do you know that blood would have been a better choice for your baby?

  Yes. I do know that a blood transfusion choice would have been, by far, a better option. I have zero doubts about that. Zero. *to add - my baby didn't need blood - he just needed surgery that may have required a blood transfusion

  The surgery was not an especially complicated one and it had a very high rate of success during those times. Instead of my son undergoing a simple, probably short, surgery to correct a small obstruction of the bowel, he was subjected to a very lengthy, hours and hours long, alternative procedure that drained a lot of the blood from his wee tiny body, stored that blood, and in the meantime, kept his body at really low temperatures. And, not only that....but 6 weeks later, he had a horrible side effect from his blood being re-transfused back into his navel. His bowel became gangrenous. None of that would have happened if he had simply been given the routine, standard surgery that may, or may not, have required a blood transfusion.

  *there is so much more to this story. It gets really ugly. Really ugly. Like Lee said, I need to write it all down.

  The really really ugly part happened when my baby had his second surgery. I was on my own for that one - no mother to interfere with my baby's medical decisions. I made it very clear to the surgeon that I wanted my baby to get blood if he needed it. The surgeon promised me he would get blood.

  But, that didn't happen. The surgeon lied because he knew that blood wasn't going to be used. The surgery had already been set up to go ahead with the alternative procedure (hemodilution) and the specialist had already been brought in from a different city. I spoke to the pediatric anesthesiologist on the telephone after the 9 hour surgery and I asked him if my baby had needed blood and if he had got it.

  This is what the doctor yelled at me over the phone:

  "Of course he didn't get blood!! You don't use blood in this procedure. What is WRONG with you people?? Nobody, nobody ever, should ever have to go through what that baby did!"

  And then he told me that he didn't understand why I wanted to come over to the hospital to see him because "he probably won't live through the night. Little guys like this don't usually make it. His chances are about 3 percent. But, you can come see him if you want."

  I went to see him.
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  23

  JW HLC....a mixed bunch...what has been your experience?

  by Lee Elder in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have had greatly varied experiences with hlc members over the years.

  i was never one myself, but i knew several of them personally.

  most struck me as being generally decent human beings.

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  OrphanCrow

  Just wanted to say a bit more about the HLC guys - the promoters of noblood alternatives.

  The HLC are special pioneers. That is the WT class they belong to. The special target of their special ministry is the medical profession. They are engaged in evangelism/promotion of the noblood industry. Their goal is to convert health care professionals, doctors, and health care systems to noblood philosophy.

  The WTS has created a cult that operates in behind the religious cult that they present to the world - they operate and support a no blood cult and the HLC members' job is to look for noblood conversions within the medical world.

  An HLC guy is a Special Pioneer. The JW "tax dollar" supports the lobbying of medical professionals.
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  23

  JW HLC....a mixed bunch...what has been your experience?

  by Lee Elder in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have had greatly varied experiences with hlc members over the years.

  i was never one myself, but i knew several of them personally.

  most struck me as being generally decent human beings.

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  OrphanCrow

  Thank you, Tricked.

  Yes, my baby survived. The doctors gave him a 3% chance of living. He lived because he was a tough little son of a bitch.
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  23

  JW HLC....a mixed bunch...what has been your experience?

  by Lee Elder in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have had greatly varied experiences with hlc members over the years.

  i was never one myself, but i knew several of them personally.

  most struck me as being generally decent human beings.

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  OrphanCrow

  Lee Elder: I would like to hear what your experiences with HLC have been like.

  My experience with the "HLC" dates back to the days before they were known as such.

  I had an encounter with those men in the days that the HLC was being piloted in Canada. 1974. The year after the "Alternatives to Blood Transfusion for Pediatrics" was published by all those devout and well-meaning 'interested' Jehovah's Witnesses down in eastern Canada. Published by all those interested JW doctors, pharmacists, etc. and distributed to hospitals across Canada.

  I don't have very many memories of those JW men who were immediately called to the hospital and likely were waiting by their phones - they arrived lickety split after my mother signed the no blood order for my newborn infant son. I suspect that they had already been alerted to a potential blood transfusion issue with a JW baby. Only thing is...that baby (my baby) was NOT a JW baby.

  Not only was my baby not a JW, I wasn't a JW and neither was my mother a JW. She had been disfellowshipped four years before that no blood order got signed by her. And the JW men that were called to the hospital? Neither my mother or I had ever seen or met them before. Of course we hadn't - neither one of us had stepped foot inside a Kingdom Hall for years and the congregation we had attended was way out in the rural country, nowhere near the big city where my son was in the hospital.

  To this day, I do not know why the doctors and the hospital didn't step up to the plate and give me mature minor support so that my wishes for my baby were respected. I wanted him to have a blood transfusion if he needed one but the minute that the white shirts and shiny shoes turned up at the consulting room, I was immediately ushered out of the room and the negotiations that occurred happened between my mother, the doctors and the JW men. I sat outside in the hall while they decided to cut my tiny, newborn baby open and try alternative procedures on him instead of a simple blood transfusion.

  My suspicions? The JWs had done their groundwork really, really well. The doctors at the hospital were fully cooperative, in fact so cooperative that a newborn baby was seen as a gold mine that had fell into their lap. A precious, tiny little guinea pig. One that could be used for those alternative procedures that the JW men had already promoted in that hospital.

  My impressions of those pilot HLC men? Shiny shoes, white shirts, and the power to stop me from talking to the doctors. Me. The baby's mother. I was 16 years old and kicked out of the consulting room by those shiny shoes. I will hate them until the day I die. And beyond. Forever.
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  57

  Highwood Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses v. Randy Wall

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.scc-csc.ca/case-dossier/info/webcastview-webdiffusionvue-eng.aspx?cas=37273&id=2017%2f2017-11-02--37273&date=2017-11-02.

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  OrphanCrow

  JD: I still think that Mr. Walls attorney had a much steeper hill to climb to win before this court and the oral arguments but I think that the ruling will be a mixed bag

  Yes, Mr. Wall's attorney, Michael Fedder, came late to the party. He fumbled a few times because of that and he did have a formidable task to address. And it should be formidable - this ruling has the potential to affect many organizations and it could have far reaching consequences.
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  57

  Highwood Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses v. Randy Wall

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.scc-csc.ca/case-dossier/info/webcastview-webdiffusionvue-eng.aspx?cas=37273&id=2017%2f2017-11-02--37273&date=2017-11-02.

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  OrphanCrow

  Smiddy3, this is a link to a Supreme Court hearing in Canada.

  A news article concerning the case:

  http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jehovah-s-witnesses-supreme-court-jurisdiction-judgement-application-appeal-wall-1.4069481

  A link to the factums of the case:

  http://www.scc-csc.ca/case-dossier/info/af-ma-eng.aspx?cas=37273

  The webcast of the appeal hearing (3 hours 24 minutes long):

  http://www.scc-csc.ca/case-dossier/info/af-ma-eng.aspx?cas=37273

  I watched the webcast yesterday and was going to make a couple comments on the other thread that is posted about this, but it appears like that thread has somehow unraveled.

  I want to watch this again because there is a lot to digest and process. But, a couple things about the webcast - the lawyer representing the Highwood congregation presents the congregation in terms that diminish the perception of the congregation's importance. Near the beginning of the webcast, David Gnam lowers his voice and in humble, small soft tones, presents the congregation as "a small, unincorporated religious organization". But, the elephant standing at the podium is this: David Gnam is a lawyer for Glen How and Associates - the big gun JW lawyers who travel all over the world representing the BIG organization that the "small unincorporated religious organization" takes their orders from.

  Another spot that grabbed my attention occurs at 3:03 of the webcast. What is happening at this point is that Gnam is giving the reply for the congregation where he is responding to submissions by the other lawyers. At this spot, one of the Supreme Court judges questions Gnam about the elder's handbook.

  Listen to David Gnam LIE at 3:04:21 and then try to shuffle around and make excuses for the secrecy of the elder's handbook. He goes into an explanation of the baptismal process and refers to the congregant's handbook of baptism. He never does give a straight answer. I don't think he was able to win that judge over.

  And then...at 3:09. This is news to me. Apparently the "judicial hearing" the "judicial committee" and the resulting judicial action of the elders of the JWs, is "not a court". It is a "pastoral meeting".

  Huh. Who knew. The things you learn from the learned David Gnam, the JW lawyer.
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  106

  Does anyone have info on the guy that sued Jw in Canada

  by poopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  because he was shunned by his customers?.

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  OrphanCrow

  JD: The case before the Canadian Supreme Court is actually whether civil courts even have the right and authority to hear cases and resolve disputes in voluntary organizations

  JD, have you read the court documents and watched the video that Terry linked to?

  Whether or not civil courts have that right and authority has already been established in previous cases. They do. And they have. It has already been done.

  Have you not watched the video?? The lawyers specifically bring up and address points from the 1992 Lakeside Colony case.
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  106

  Does anyone have info on the guy that sued Jw in Canada

  by poopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  because he was shunned by his customers?.

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  OrphanCrow

  Poopie, have you read the court documents and watched the video that Terry linked to?
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  106

  Does anyone have info on the guy that sued Jw in Canada

  by poopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  because he was shunned by his customers?.

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  OrphanCrow

  Thanks for posting that link, Terry.

  Watching it now...