OrphanCrow

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Posts by OrphanCrow

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  110

  If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!

  by nowwhat? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have to make a token appearance at the k.h.

  once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.

  and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.

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  OrphanCrow

  Morph: Try to keep up

  Lol!

  I am trying

  I am of the opinion that even if the JW religion closed all their Kingdom Halls and just stuck to online content and broadcasts...that the Watch Tower Society would still exist
• 
  65

  Lloyd Evans' New Book - Is It Really Necessary?

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so lloyd evans will shortly be releasing his new book how to leave the jehovah's witnesses.

  i do enjoy his rebuttals and the stuff he manages to get hold of and leak.

  but i'm struggling to understand what he could possibly write to merit a whole book.. all info on how to leave is right here on this forum.

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  OrphanCrow

  pale emperor: But I still haven't read his first book The Reluctant Apostate due to it being £23.99.

  I didn't read it because I can't imagine sitting through 802 (!!!) pages of material that has already been covered by other authors. I can't imagine what would be new and exciting about Lloyd's book

  I like long books and I like reading but I think I can spend my time better reading other authors who can organize their material better, and who have better academic credentials and reputations
  

  One of the most comprehensive books I have read exposing the org is James Pentons' Apocalypse Delayed and it is only 584 pages long
• 
  110

  If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!

  by nowwhat? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have to make a token appearance at the k.h.

  once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.

  and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.

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  OrphanCrow

  Slim: ...outside of the prophetic failures in 1914, 1925 and 1975

  And did the WTS collapse then?

  No, it didn't

  It changed it spots but it didn't collapse in spite of losing (in the late 20s) over 75% of its membership. And it didn't collapse when it showed a decline in members after 1975

  A slow down in growth (not an actual decline in reported numbers) in reported membership numbers does not translate as collapse

  
  
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  23

  Massive hints against alcohol

  by purrpurr in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the most recent assembly there were several heavy hints about not drinking alcohol at all.

  saying that it doesn't give a good witness or would stumble others.. is this a new "unwritten directive?.

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  OrphanCrow

  undercover: They've always preached the evils of alcohol.

  Sort of. The org occasionally warns about over indulgence of alcohol but drinking alcohol is not a disfellowshipping offense like smoking is.

  Which is odd when you consider the blood ban.

  Long term use of alcohol can (and often does) lead to cirrhosis of the liver which in turn, can lead to internal hemorrhaging.

  So smoking is banned but drinking alcohol isn't

  You would think that if the org really had the JWs' best interests at heart (like they claim with the smoking ban) that they would have also have banned alcohol because it increases the risk of facing a blood transfusion

  http://www.alcoholabuse.com/info/effects-of-alcohol-abuse/can-get-internal-bleeding-alcohol-abuse/
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  5

  Prince had enough fentanyl in his system to kill a horse or two

  by Wild_Thing in

  1. social
  2. current

  how can someone purposely take that much fentanyl and it still be considered an "accidental overdose"?

  i understand that they call it that because they don't think he was purposely trying to kill himself, but that would be like someone firing a fully loaded gun at their head and saying they were playing russian roulette.. his blood had 67.8 micrograms per liter.

  deaths have been documented in people with blood levels ranging from three to 58 micrograms per liter.

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  OrphanCrow

  dropoff: I'd like to see this reported from a more reputable source

  Associated Press:

  https://apnews.com/f80bf6952ecf4d02a675b9fac69d7dc6/Experts:-Prince-toxicology-report-shows-very-high-drug-level
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  31

  Jehovah’s Witnesses threaten Irish blogger with damages (avoidjw.org)

  by Not_Culty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jason wynne: threatened with legal action by the jehovah’s witnesses .

  sect claims publication of its secret policy documents is a copyright violation; website contents also include documents concerning child sex abuse allegations.

  https://www.businesspost.ie/news/jehovahs-witnesses-granted-subpoena-irish-blogger-412638.

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  OrphanCrow

  Heck, Steve, the org could make the avoidjw website into an assembly experience:

  "This poor unfortunate person make a mistake and ended up downloading several org publications from *gasp* an apostate website!! But, fortunately Jehobah's spirit was at work, and the holy spirit guided this man to "get the correct understanding" from the literature he read. Isn't Jehobah miraculous? He used an apostate website to spread the "Truth"!!!"

  *cue clapping

  "And! he is getting baptized today!"

  *cue clapping...wipe tears
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  31

  Jehovah’s Witnesses threaten Irish blogger with damages (avoidjw.org)

  by Not_Culty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jason wynne: threatened with legal action by the jehovah’s witnesses .

  sect claims publication of its secret policy documents is a copyright violation; website contents also include documents concerning child sex abuse allegations.

  https://www.businesspost.ie/news/jehovahs-witnesses-granted-subpoena-irish-blogger-412638.

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  OrphanCrow

  I like to look at the irony of the org claiming copyright protection on their religious literature.

  On the one hand, they present their writings as "Truth" (capital "T"), and their followers accept whatever is written by the org as "fact".

  "Facts" cannot be copyrighted

  Fiction can be copyrighted. Creative works can be copyrighted. But I don't think that "God" is allowed to hold a copyright on this planet

  If the org really wants people to accept that they have "Truth", then they need to drop their copyright blustering
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  31

  Jehovah’s Witnesses threaten Irish blogger with damages (avoidjw.org)

  by Not_Culty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jason wynne: threatened with legal action by the jehovah’s witnesses .

  sect claims publication of its secret policy documents is a copyright violation; website contents also include documents concerning child sex abuse allegations.

  https://www.businesspost.ie/news/jehovahs-witnesses-granted-subpoena-irish-blogger-412638.

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  OrphanCrow

  Yes, Steve, that is for courts to decide. And, from reading Cotter's article, it is apparent that there are issues in the circumstances surrounding religious texts as opposed to secular texts that makes this case especially interesting.

  A broad brush doesn't work when applying copyright laws to texts that are of a religious nature. There are several arguments that Cotter proposes that are applicable to making the case that full, unaltered copies should be made available through a different venue than the copyright holder. For purposes of research and subsequent critique, the entire authenticated copies have to be made public. The website in question offers many publications that cannot be found elsewhere because they are no longer in print.

  The org has a history, as well, of altering their own text at times and declaring publications "old light" and making them inaccessible to most people. And, there is also the issue of public access. In spite of the org offering their pared down and selective downloads, there are many people who don't and won't access the org site because of their personal beliefs that contradict the philosophy of supporting a belief system such as the org offers and also are wary of offering personal details to an org they no longer trust.

  I, for one, have made great use of the avoidjw website. I just wish it was faster to download, that's all. I support them making copyrighted org material available to anyone who wants it. The org brags that their literature is widely distributed. They give it away for free.

  What the org is doing is clearly censorship
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  31

  Jehovah’s Witnesses threaten Irish blogger with damages (avoidjw.org)

  by Not_Culty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jason wynne: threatened with legal action by the jehovah’s witnesses .

  sect claims publication of its secret policy documents is a copyright violation; website contents also include documents concerning child sex abuse allegations.

  https://www.businesspost.ie/news/jehovahs-witnesses-granted-subpoena-irish-blogger-412638.

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  OrphanCrow

  scrtachme: If he is violating the law...

  "IF" is the key word here.

  The org waves their "copyright" around whenever they feel threatened but as far as I know, nobody has challenged them in court over their use of copyright as a censorship tool.

  Law and legalities can and are challenged in court all the time.

  This issue has never made it into the court system

  I would like to see it go to court sometime. There are lawyers who believe that there is a sound argument for a secretive religion's literature being made public and distributed without commentary and without any changes whatsoever.

  from:

  Gutenberg's Legacy: Copyright, Censorship, and Religious Pluralism

  https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1378&context=californialawreview

  As one might expect, copying another's expression in its entirety usually weighs against fair use; however, the fundamental question is whether "the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole" are reasonable in relation to the purpose of copying. Thus, in some circumstances, fair use may apply even when the defendant has copied the entire work, while in others it may not apply if the portion copied, though relatively small, constitutes the "heart" of the work.

  Much has happened concerning copyrights since the above article was published in 2003, but this was the author's conclusion to his informative article on religious copyright:

  History often repeats itself. Although both copyright law and freedom of religion have made considerable progress since the era of the Stationers' Company, when the Crown conferred the exclusive right to copy expressly for the purpose of promoting censorship, cases still arise in which copyright can serve to silence dissenting views. I have argued above that courts should discourage this misuse of copyright, and that respect for the beliefs of minority religions and of religious dissenters should inform the courts' analysis of several copyright issues. More specifically, when copyright plaintiffs claim that God or another supernatural being has authored the work in question, a commitment to religious accommodation and the doctrine of copyright estoppel counsels in favor of taking these plaintiffs at their word, without passing judgment on the truth or falsity of the claim. Moreover, in some contexts the merger doctrine should limit the assertion of copyright in religious texts, although courts must be careful to avoid creating a significant disincentive to the publication of these works.

  
  Second, while the application of generally applicable copyright law does not violate the Free Exercise Clause, a respect for religious diversity suggests that courts should be more sensitive in their application of the fair-use doctrine to believers' needs to copy, adapt, and distribute religious works. Specifically, courts should be wary of copyright owners' assertion of copyright rights as a potential means of suppressing or inhibiting religious dissent. At the same time, this counsel hardly suggests that most uses of religious works should be exempted under fair use, and it leaves open the possibility that some uses should be regulated under a liability rule instead of under the more common property-rule regime.

  Copyright law is not cut and dry, especially when it is applied to religious texts.

  It is premature to say that the owner of the website avoidjw.og is violating the law. That has not been established.
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  15

  Jehovah's Witnesses child sexual abuse cover up gets broadcast across Canadian television.

  by Finkelstein in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  well the shit has finally hit the fan here in chanda for the jws.. an hour long investigative journalist program called w5 went deep into the jws's pedophilia cover up problems that have been on going for decades within the jws religion.. .

  i think its good thing for the public to realize how religions can and will coverup egregious acts which are serious crimes in most countries just to up hold a clean wholesome image around their organizations.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1zlhbk6ihm.

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  OrphanCrow

  smiddy3: One thing about the video showing ex JW`s going into KH`s and disrupting their meetings which i personally don`t think are productive methods

  I realize that active activism upsets some people personally but...it was the aggressive activism that got the attention of W5 to investigate and air a documentary. And that is the first goal of effective activism - public attention

  they should at least dress appropiately similar to what a JW is expected to wear at meetings .

  Then it wouldn't be as effective - the activists would be doing the same thing they did before they left which was obeying the org's rules on outward appearance so that everyone around them was comfortable. Activism is about making people uncomfortable