Posts by OrphanCrow

28

Memorial of the Death of Jesus 2016

by wolfman85 in

in 2016, jw will have their memorial of jesus death on march 23, 2016. http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/meetings/#?insight[search_id]=99cee3cb-687e-4276-9c70-3af8d20c220b&insight[search_result_index]=0.

that day is not for nissan 14th of the jewish calendar, or am i wrong ?

?.

OrphanCrow

Maybe the WTS is using "The Calendar of Jehovah" to calculate the memorial date.

https://archive.org/details/theCalendarOfJehovahGod

59

Cooperate Members of the Watchtower Society

by James Jack in

a older sister in miami florida has told me that the special pioneer couple who got their walking papers last week said they are also voting members of the watchtower society.

also his stock share is valued at $800,000!.

i did some research and spoke to some longtime witnesses and found out that there are 500 voting members of the society and they are also called shareholders.. has anyone ever of someone selling his share?.

OrphanCrow

Thank you for that link, Anon.

The problem with that document is that it is no longer valid.

Organizational bylaws are not that difficult to change. Time consuming but not difficult. Over the course of the past almost100 years, there would have been many changes to those bylaws. The only way we can know for certain what the membership requirements are is to have access to the current WTS bylaws.

59

Cooperate Members of the Watchtower Society

by James Jack in

a older sister in miami florida has told me that the special pioneer couple who got their walking papers last week said they are also voting members of the watchtower society.

also his stock share is valued at $800,000!.

i did some research and spoke to some longtime witnesses and found out that there are 500 voting members of the society and they are also called shareholders.. has anyone ever of someone selling his share?.

OrphanCrow

Saint: According to the 1945 charter amendment the Watchtower is a non-stock corporation with only voting shares.
The voters are selected by the board and have to be dedicated male witnesses.
If they elected non-JW's the Watchtower board would be violating the charter, and for this there can be serious consequences.

That is true - according to the 1945 amendment.

However, if you check the most recent amendment (2003) that we have access to, it states:

"The members' number, the members' qualifications, the manner of electing members, and other matters pertaining to members, shall be as provided in the bylaws."

Do we know what the WTS bylaws state? Have those bylaws ever been made public?

59

Cooperate Members of the Watchtower Society

by James Jack in

a older sister in miami florida has told me that the special pioneer couple who got their walking papers last week said they are also voting members of the watchtower society.

also his stock share is valued at $800,000!.

i did some research and spoke to some longtime witnesses and found out that there are 500 voting members of the society and they are also called shareholders.. has anyone ever of someone selling his share?.

OrphanCrow

JamesJack; I have bought stock from different companies throughout the years if I thought I could make a dollar or 2 regardless if I like the business or not!

James, I think that there are a few critical points to consider -

1. there is no capital stock in the WTS, according to their charter.

2. shareholders do not buy their shares - they are selected/appointed

3. there are no share dividends

4. even if the WTS closed up shop, any profits made from the dissolution of the corporation has to be turned over to another non-profit entity

So, with those points in mind, Gayle's questions are intriguing:

Gayle: Why would anyone be a shareholder, not a member of the organization (or any other such business, religion, etc.) and have no monetary interest, or any other interest in such organization???

Exactly. How do non-JWs benefit from being part of an organization that offers zero profit to a shareholder? We can understand the JW shareholders - their belief system is what invests them in the WTS and they see their payoff as being measured in spiritual reward. But...what about those who do not have an emotional investment/connection to the WTS? Why would they hold voting shares?

Well....let's think about that. A nonJW would have to see some sort of return outside of spiritual considerations to be bothered to invest time into an organization. According to the WTS charter, nobody gets dividends or profit from their membership in the Society. Hmmmm.

Okay...bear with me. This is a hypothetical example. Hypothetical.

Let's imagine that some of those nonJWs are...let's see...bloodless surgeons. Or maybe administrators connected to blood management. How would their membership in the Society benefit them? Would the blood doctrine that the WTS has power over have any effect on their profession? Of course it would.

Would it be in the interest of people who work in bloodless medicine to have the WTS drop their blood doctrine? No, it wouldn't. But, keeping that doctrine in place would pay 'dividends' to the bloodless industry and anyone connected to it. Which, in turn, would ensure that the WTS would receive 'donations' (tax exempt for those donating) from the ones who profit from keeping the WTS blood doctrine in place.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

OrphanCrow

TheRebel: Absolutely OpenCrow, that was never my suggestion. But when the brain is a silent immovable rock, trapped in a captive Jehovers Witness mind, it needs compassion and answers. Now I am not saying we should all be full of love and not challenge a posters deeply held believes. All I am saying is some posters, can respond to posters deeply held beliefs and be as challenging but with more sympathy and understanding than other posters.

*pssst...it is "Orphan" Crow...

You are right that a person's "cult brain" needs compassion and answers. Some people are going to give you compassion, and others are going to give you answers. As the old saying goes - "the truth can hurt".

Don't ever forget that those posters who you perceive as not being sympathetic and understanding are also in recovery.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

OrphanCrow

The Rebel: It would be interesting if we had statistics, of those prominent posters like minimus, blondie, Viviane, Cofty& ,EdenOne. I wonder of those posters which have been most helpful in helping assisting Simons intended purpose with the forum, which is to help those people through their Watchtower exsperience.
Anyway my vote goes to...
Number 3 . Blondie
Number 2 Minimus
Number one....( after the remission)

Rebel, this forum is not a competition.

We don't measure worth on how many people a poster has "saved".

Everybody has worth.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

OrphanCrow

viviane:
(Me)"I think that this is a fundamental issue on this thread - emotion vs. rationality."

I don't know if that is true. For instance, if someone I work with came to me with a question, say "Hey Viv, take a look at this configuration for a computing system and the projected workload. Will this system meet the workload requirements?", I would then do some math. There are almost always things we don't know, things we can't plan or calculate for in exercises like this, so you have to used past experience, educated guesses, etc.. If, after looking at everything, compiling what we do know with the things we had to makes assumptions or best guesses for and doing the math, etc., would it be an emotional belief to say "I believe this design will be adequate"?

That is a tough one, Viv. and this is something I have thought about this many times in the past. What is belief? What is knowledge? Is my "belief" rational?

In the above example that you give, Viv, I think that your belief would be emotional. Yes, it is based upon rational computations, but at the same time, the final "leap" would be emotional. Your rational assessment of the situation got you to the point that you could make a decision, but your final answer was a "belief", not something you "knew" without question.

*to add - maybe in your example, Viv, saying "I think this design would be accurate" would be a more accurate way to communicate what you mean. You don't really "believe" it is accurate...you "think" it is accurate.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

OrphanCrow

The Rebel: My additional comment is, I was of the assumption Simon started this forum to help people out of a " CULT" and i in my case " EdenOnes" posts gave me that help. So in my life "EdenOne" represented what this forum is about, giving people the help, support and determination to live a life outside the Watchtoer. I also think this forum can subtract from its origional purpose when threads become devoid of that intent.

That is great that Eden's posts helped you. However, this forum is not just about you. Everybody here is at their own personal place in recovery and each poster will enter into conversations with feedback reflecting the place that they are at.

You cannot control how other posters respond to you and you cannot determine what other people need in order to cope and function with their cult exit.

What helps you may not help someone else, and what helps someone else may not help you. This is a community of diversity.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

OrphanCrow

TheRebel: Some posters must write from the heart, and they should be at liberty to do so. They cannot do that if the ideas from the heart are crushed without sensitivity.

By saying "from the heart", I understand that you mean "from an emotional place". Correct me if I am wrong, please. But, for the sake of this discussion...I am going to go with that.

I think that this is a fundamental issue on this thread - emotion vs. rationality.

Anytime that somebody puts "beliefs" out there to be discussed, the discussion is invariably emotional - it can't help but be that, because beliefs are based upon emotion, not rationality.

As far as "respect" of belief goes, I cannot respect a belief that is harmful to others. I measure belief on the actions that it produces.

59

Cooperate Members of the Watchtower Society

by James Jack in

a older sister in miami florida has told me that the special pioneer couple who got their walking papers last week said they are also voting members of the watchtower society.

also his stock share is valued at $800,000!.

i did some research and spoke to some longtime witnesses and found out that there are 500 voting members of the society and they are also called shareholders.. has anyone ever of someone selling his share?.

OrphanCrow

Lieu: Yes, it's a corporation with shareholders, voting members and such. Not all are JWS either.

I have heard this before - that there are shareholders in the WTS that are not JWs. However, I have never found confirmation of this and I have never found a shareholder list. Do you know if such a list exists? And do you know who these "non-JWs" are?

Is the shareholder list secret?