Posts by OrphanCrow

39

Family of Jehovah's Witness who died after refusing blood transfusion can't keep suing doctors

by pale.emperor in

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/07/court_nixes_lawsuit_by_family.html.

the family of a jehovah's witness who died after repeatedly refusing blood transfusions can't sue the hospital where doctors begged for a chance to save her life, a state appeals court ruled.. the case, outlined in an opinion by superior court judge jacqueline o. shogan, involves a convergence of religion, medicine and the law.. its focus is on what happened before terri seels-davila, a jehovah's witness missionary, died after giving birth at hahnemann university hospital in philadelphia in november 2010.. seels-davila, who had been serving on mission with her husband in nicaragua, chose hahnemann because of its "bloodless medicine" program for patients who won't agree to having blood transfusions, including jehovah's witnesses, shogan noted.

the treatment plan for seels-davila called for recycling her own blood back into her system.. yet that proved to be inadequate when complications of her delivery required seels-davila to deliver by cesarean section.

OrphanCrow

problemaddict: Orphan Crow,
I appreciate the info. My first child i was a JW, the second I had left. Both were complicated, and blood was almost introduced.
I think the word "mundane" was a poor choice. I suppose I meant "common". Birth is a common procedure. Like do the elders show up for tonsillectomies? There is a larger than normal bleed risk there. I just hadn't really heard of it before, and I was being "groomed" for the HLC at one point in my former life.
Either way, i did not know the risk was that high, and transfusions commonplace. thanks for the details.

Yes, birth is common. Pretty much as common as death is. :)

I don't know if the HLC/elders show up for tonsillectomies. They likely do. The procedure is not as common as childbirth but the risk of bleeding is about the same - 3%.

It is alarming that you were being groomed for the HLC and had never been given the facts about the risks of bleeding for pregnant women. And that is what happens with the WT directed HLC and the "bloodless medicine centers" - they have been trained by the WT and they haven't been given the correct information. The information they are trained with is very, very one-sided and often outdated and inaccurate.

This page debunks a lot of the WT blood information:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Blood_Transfusions:_How_Safe

The risk that takes center stage for the JW patient is the risk that has been given to them by the WTS: they won't get to paradise if they take non-approved blood.

40

Russia - Who Will Get the Property of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

http://www.interessant.ru/politics/komu-dostanietsia-imushchie.

who will get the property of jehovah's witnesses?.

the sect "jehovah's witnesses", recognized as an extremist organization and banned in russia, owned real estate worth 4 billion rubles.

OrphanCrow

Interestingly this house already serves the community, as it appears as "House of culture"!

This is also a "House of Culture" - a photo from the JW Russian collection I linked to in an earlier post:

Дом Культуры

39

Family of Jehovah's Witness who died after refusing blood transfusion can't keep suing doctors

by pale.emperor in

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/07/court_nixes_lawsuit_by_family.html.

the family of a jehovah's witness who died after repeatedly refusing blood transfusions can't sue the hospital where doctors begged for a chance to save her life, a state appeals court ruled.. the case, outlined in an opinion by superior court judge jacqueline o. shogan, involves a convergence of religion, medicine and the law.. its focus is on what happened before terri seels-davila, a jehovah's witness missionary, died after giving birth at hahnemann university hospital in philadelphia in november 2010.. seels-davila, who had been serving on mission with her husband in nicaragua, chose hahnemann because of its "bloodless medicine" program for patients who won't agree to having blood transfusions, including jehovah's witnesses, shogan noted.

the treatment plan for seels-davila called for recycling her own blood back into her system.. yet that proved to be inadequate when complications of her delivery required seels-davila to deliver by cesarean section.

OrphanCrow

Wonder: Are JW women aware at all about their high risk? Does anyone ever talk with pregnant?

According to the court document, it was a staff member at the "bloodless center", a JW themselves, who explained the risks. However, it does not say if the patient knew what her risks of hemorrhaging were to begin with.

...Hahnemann had a “Bloodless Medicine Program” with three clerical staff who were Jehovah’s Witnesses. See N.T. 4/23/15 at 154. These clerks were responsible for explaining the risks inherent in not receiving blood transfusions and alternative treatment methods if transfusions are refused, ensuring the bloodless patients’ wishes were memorialized on blood transfusion refusal consent forms, and that this information was transmitted to and prominently displayed on the patient’s medical chart and hospital wristbands upon admission.
On November 19, 2010, Seels-Davila and her father met with Iris Jiminez, one of the clerks at Hahnemann’s Center for Bloodless Medicine.

It appears as though the (paid) JW staff of the bloodless center replace the HLC duties for the hospital. Note that the HLC were never mentioned in the court document.

39

Family of Jehovah's Witness who died after refusing blood transfusion can't keep suing doctors

by pale.emperor in

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/07/court_nixes_lawsuit_by_family.html.

the family of a jehovah's witness who died after repeatedly refusing blood transfusions can't sue the hospital where doctors begged for a chance to save her life, a state appeals court ruled.. the case, outlined in an opinion by superior court judge jacqueline o. shogan, involves a convergence of religion, medicine and the law.. its focus is on what happened before terri seels-davila, a jehovah's witness missionary, died after giving birth at hahnemann university hospital in philadelphia in november 2010.. seels-davila, who had been serving on mission with her husband in nicaragua, chose hahnemann because of its "bloodless medicine" program for patients who won't agree to having blood transfusions, including jehovah's witnesses, shogan noted.

the treatment plan for seels-davila called for recycling her own blood back into her system.. yet that proved to be inadequate when complications of her delivery required seels-davila to deliver by cesarean section.

OrphanCrow

Annually. This year. How many will need blood but not get it? How many will die?

Birth rate in US: 2.4 births per 1000 people

JWs in US: 1,200,000 (rounded down)

JW births: 14,880*

Number of JW women in the United States this year alone who, statistically, will bleed too much during childbirth (2.9% of births):

431

Four hundred and thirty one pregnant JW women in the US will hemorrhage this year

*conservative number - the stat of *per 1000 people includes the whole population. The JW population includes those of publisher age and up

39

Family of Jehovah's Witness who died after refusing blood transfusion can't keep suing doctors

by pale.emperor in

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/07/court_nixes_lawsuit_by_family.html.

the family of a jehovah's witness who died after repeatedly refusing blood transfusions can't sue the hospital where doctors begged for a chance to save her life, a state appeals court ruled.. the case, outlined in an opinion by superior court judge jacqueline o. shogan, involves a convergence of religion, medicine and the law.. its focus is on what happened before terri seels-davila, a jehovah's witness missionary, died after giving birth at hahnemann university hospital in philadelphia in november 2010.. seels-davila, who had been serving on mission with her husband in nicaragua, chose hahnemann because of its "bloodless medicine" program for patients who won't agree to having blood transfusions, including jehovah's witnesses, shogan noted.

the treatment plan for seels-davila called for recycling her own blood back into her system.. yet that proved to be inadequate when complications of her delivery required seels-davila to deliver by cesarean section.

OrphanCrow

problemaddict2: This was a childbirth. Do they really show up for such mundane things?

Giving birth is far from mundane. Maybe for the man it is a mundane event, but it isn't for the woman.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/275038-overview

Postpartum hemorrhage (PPH) is the leading cause of maternal mortality. All women who carry a pregnancy beyond 20 weeks’ gestation are at risk for PPH and its sequelae. Although maternal mortality rates have declined greatly in the developed world, PPH remains a leading cause of maternal mortality elsewhere.
The direct pregnancy-related maternal mortality rate in the United States is approximately 7-10 women per 100,000 live births. National statistics suggest that approximately 8% of these deaths are caused by PPH. [1] In industrialized countries, PPH usually ranks in the top 3 causes of maternal mortality, along with embolism and hypertension. In the developing world, several countries have maternal mortality rates in excess of 1000 women per 100,000 live births, and World Health Organization statistics suggest that 25% of maternal deaths are due to PPH, accounting for more than 100,000 maternal deaths per year. [2] The most recent Practice Bulletin from the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists places the estimate at 140,000 maternal deaths per year or 1 woman every 4 minutes. [3]
The rate of PPH increased from 1.5% in 1999 to 4.1% in 2009, and the rate of atonic PPH rose from 1% in 1999 to 3.4% in 2009. The risk of PPH with a morbidly adherent placenta is markedly higher. [4]

And this:

http://www.pphproject.org/maternal-morbidity-mortality.asp

Every 10 minutes a woman in the United States almost dies of pregnancy-related complications. Postpartum hemorrhage is a leading cause of these complications, with an estimated 2.9% of the women who give birth in the U.S. will bleed too much. This means about 125,000 women a year are affected. In addition, in the last 10 years, there was a 183% increase in the number of women who had a blood transfusion around the time they gave birth.

Postpartum hemorrhage is a leading cause of these complications, with an estimated 2.9% of the women who give birth in the U.S. will bleed too much.

For every 100 pregnant JW women in the U.S., 3 of them will bleed too much. Or, 29 out of 1000. Annually. This year. How many will need blood but not get it? How many will die?

Canadian stats: https://www.med.uottawa.ca/sim/data/assets/documents/Mortality-EN-Final-PDF.pdf

The HLC have an interest in pregnant women. They have high blood transfusion requirements. And so do newborn babies.

40

Russia - Who Will Get the Property of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

http://www.interessant.ru/politics/komu-dostanietsia-imushchie.

who will get the property of jehovah's witnesses?.

the sect "jehovah's witnesses", recognized as an extremist organization and banned in russia, owned real estate worth 4 billion rubles.

OrphanCrow

Rubles, Hecce, rubles...

4 billion rubles converts to:

$84,652,320 Canadian

$67,562,000 US

And the most tasty piece of land was pretty much given to them. And the second most tasty, too. Picked up for "pennies". No wonder the GB are gnashing their teeth and weeping

18

Russia Ban = Armageddon?

by HereIgo in

something tells me that the russian j dub's are secretly rejoicing, having private study groups and convinced that armageddon is upon us.

they will be sadly disappointed.

thoughts?.

OrphanCrow

WTWizard: Even Canada tried banning them.

Canada didn't just try. They did ban the JWs in WW2. And so did Australia.

21

New Kingdom Halls in Strip Malls & Real Estate Listings

by 4thgen in

i met with a jw today and they showed me a picture of the new style kh build.

the building was located in a ***strip mall**** in florida.

i'm always amazed (and disgusted) at the new and inventive ways they think of expanding their real estate holdings.. along that vein...i recently discovered this: .

OrphanCrow

WTWizard: Nice waste. How can any strip mall owner, who is trying to run a business, put up with a church of any type in the mall?

It has been happening in many places for several years. Strip mall churches are a thing

Are churches strip malls' salvation?

Coming to a Strip Mall Near You

Empty strip malls in Edmonton offer new homes for churches

For some, strip malls' salvation is found in churches

And for those who like social media, there is even a facebook page: Strip Mall Churches

40

Russia - Who Will Get the Property of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

http://www.interessant.ru/politics/komu-dostanietsia-imushchie.

who will get the property of jehovah's witnesses?.

the sect "jehovah's witnesses", recognized as an extremist organization and banned in russia, owned real estate worth 4 billion rubles.

OrphanCrow

dp: but what about the 106 people who have ALREADY signed this...

I dunno...what about them? They may get their cultural center. Who knows? It is just one property of many.

The property that is the most valuable is the Solnechnoye Administrative Center.

For 16 pages of photos:

https://ssl.panoramio.com/user/4413806?photo_page=1

Grab your souvenir photos now, they may not be up for much longer. Lots to chose from.

Sample:

21

New Kingdom Halls in Strip Malls & Real Estate Listings

by 4thgen in

i met with a jw today and they showed me a picture of the new style kh build.

the building was located in a ***strip mall**** in florida.

i'm always amazed (and disgusted) at the new and inventive ways they think of expanding their real estate holdings.. along that vein...i recently discovered this: .

OrphanCrow

Heartsafire: Certainly, if rapid contraction continues, the commercial ones will be much easier to sell or lease.

Or to seize and convert to shopping centers:

"In St. Petersburg, the skin of a dead bear has already begun to be divided. Virtual. In business circles, the question of using the four most interesting from the business point of view is discussed - "Halls of kingdoms" on Luzhskaya street, 10, and Chernyakhovskogo street, 71, "Congress hall" on Kolomyazhsky avenue, 21, and "Management center" in Solnechny. In the first two cases, buildings can become small shopping centers without special restructuring."

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6260317501784064/russia-who-will-get-property-jehovahs-witnesses