Posts by OrphanCrow

142

Panpsychism - a philosophy with a future

by slimboyfat in

at one time scientists believed that living things and non-living things were made of different material, accounting for the unique properties of living things.

this idea is called vitalism and is no longer popular.

what does remain popular (in fact is still the dominant view) is a similar idea that things that experience the world (humans, frogs, mice) are different from things that don't experience the world (potatoes, rocks, snowflakes).

OrphanCrow

Can there be a consciousness without a brain?

18

When the “blood fractions” was available for any pacient as an alternative treatment?

by RodrigoGuerreiro in

sorry if my topic question was difficult to understand (english is not my native language).

i will like to know the year when the so called “blood fractions” was available as an alternative to a whole blood transfusion.

my question is triggered by the curiosity about how long jw died or put their life at risk, refusing that type of treatment before the year 2000 (when the “new light” allowed that type of treatment).. thank you.

OrphanCrow

Rodrigo: I have no idea of JWs are some of the ”guinea pigs” on some medical trials, I thought that was a big gap between the availability of the treatment and the JWs acceptance

Then you likely didn't know that the trials for a lot of "alternative" procedures, and especially artificial blood, are funded and organized by the US Department of Defense.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/287365/blood-us-army-us-navy-watchtower-society

Jehovah's Witnesses cannot don a uniform but they sure do come in handy for medical testing that benefits the military. The two groups that are most interested in artificial blood? The military and the JWs. Bedfellows in the search for the Holy Grail - artificial blood. That magic elixir that just maybe, maybe someday...will extend the life of people for...oh, maybe indefinitely? Synthetic blood. Never dies and never fails. The promise of eternal life - the promise of biotechnology

22

Crises of Conscience latest, plus : a solution for reading it legally, courtesy of u/ziddina

by Diogenesister in

recently, someone who knows deborah drexler, the current copyright holder of cofc, asked her if she will consider having it published again.

her response was:.

" i will have to ask jesus"!!!!!.

OrphanCrow

It is really encouraging to hear that Jesus has found a way to release Ray's life giving book to the Russians.

Way to go Jesus!

Crisis of Conscience

I have read a few stories out of Russia where Ray's book has been credited as the tool that pried them loose from the WT grip.

Thank Jesus that Ray's book has made its way across the Big Pond

22

Crises of Conscience latest, plus : a solution for reading it legally, courtesy of u/ziddina

by Diogenesister in

recently, someone who knows deborah drexler, the current copyright holder of cofc, asked her if she will consider having it published again.

her response was:.

" i will have to ask jesus"!!!!!.

OrphanCrow

" I will have to ask Jesus"!!!!!

I am more than a little annoyed at this response.

"I will have to ask Jesus"????

WTF is that??

So that means that it is Jesus' fault for the book being held up. She is blaming Jesus for the book being made as inaccessible as possible. Jesus has held the book up, according to her logic

Sheesh. And she calls herself a Christian.

Deborah, do the "Christian" thing and turn the book over to the public domain. It is already there. Make it official and legal

22

Crises of Conscience latest, plus : a solution for reading it legally, courtesy of u/ziddina

by Diogenesister in

recently, someone who knows deborah drexler, the current copyright holder of cofc, asked her if she will consider having it published again.

her response was:.

" i will have to ask jesus"!!!!!.

OrphanCrow

Dio: Her response was:
" I will have to ask Jesus"!!!!!
Make of that what you will.
Personally, I think she feels it's better to have people as believers in the Watchtower, than non-believers out of the Watchtower, but that's just my take

Oh.

A Christian with misguided values is in charge of Ray's legacy.

No wonder she is grasping tightly with sweaty little hands.

She will be blessed by Jesus for not allowing the book to get in the hands of *gasp* unbelievers

Jesus will be proud of her

*edit to add:

Ray's book available in 16 languages for download: http://jw-wayback.org/en/static1/library

18

When the “blood fractions” was available for any pacient as an alternative treatment?

by RodrigoGuerreiro in

sorry if my topic question was difficult to understand (english is not my native language).

i will like to know the year when the so called “blood fractions” was available as an alternative to a whole blood transfusion.

my question is triggered by the curiosity about how long jw died or put their life at risk, refusing that type of treatment before the year 2000 (when the “new light” allowed that type of treatment).. thank you.

OrphanCrow

TD: Perhaps another example would be the administration of IgG as a transfusion (i.e. An inverted 500ml bag connected to the patient by IV) which is a treatment for idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura and Kawasaki's syndrome. I could imagine some JW's having a problem with this procedure because of the method.

That is interesting, TD.

Why I find that interesting is because so-called "bloodless" surgery procedures, which the WTS promotes as "the golden standard of care" has only came about because of blood transfusion technology.

The methods used in WTS approved procedures are blood transfusions - transfusions of the patient's own blood. That has been happening since back in the 60s. It is actually pretty ironic. The WTS slams the medical community for using blood transfusions, but then turns around and promotes procedures and technology that relies on the technology developed for blood transfusions.

It is actually pretty stupid if you break it down into simple terms. Let's say that Jehovah really does hate blood transfusions. Really hates them. Doesn't want people sharing blood at all. No siree. No blood sharing down there on Earth. Don't do it humans! And so Jehovah makes sure that a faithful human transcribes his instructions in stone....to be passed down to more humans as instructions to not share blood. And don't eat it.

Then things start happening with medicine and people start to share blood for medical purposes. The birth of blood transfusion technology. Which, apparently, Jehovah really, really hated. And then that technology advanced to the point that blood transfusions were saving lives. the blood technology was working.

And what does Jehovah do next? Well, he sent a message down to Earth to Nathan Knorr and Freddie Franz that Jehovah's special people couldn't avail themselves of this life saving procedure. In 1945. At the end of WW2. BUT. Smarty pants Jehovah had a plan. Yesiree. Jehovah waited until that blood transfusion technology (bad blood transfusions. BAD!) was developed to the point that his special elite ones could avail themselves of that (bad) blood technology so that they didn't have to share their blood with anyone or use the blood of other people unless it had been sanitized first.

Smarty pants Jehovah. Sitting back in the weeds just waiting until blood transfusions were developed so that he could have his people take that technology and develop Tada! "bloodless" surgery.

Without blood transfusions, there would be no "bloodless" surgery.

*to add - I meant to talk about the JWs having problems with the method of delivery of some of the "fractions". A personal story. My sister in law was a nurse. After she retired (and after the person I am about to talk about died) she shared with me how this JW man's factor viii was administered. The hospital staff would wait until after visiting hours were over and then they would hook up his bag of clotting factor to his IV. And then they would take a towel or two to cover the bag and the tube going into his arm so he wouldn't have to see the 'blood' going in. It upset him so much to see the red clotting factors and yet he took the treatment so that he could be with his family longer. It was sad. He was one of the good ones. A very kind and nice man who had hemophilia.

18

When the “blood fractions” was available for any pacient as an alternative treatment?

by RodrigoGuerreiro in

sorry if my topic question was difficult to understand (english is not my native language).

i will like to know the year when the so called “blood fractions” was available as an alternative to a whole blood transfusion.

my question is triggered by the curiosity about how long jw died or put their life at risk, refusing that type of treatment before the year 2000 (when the “new light” allowed that type of treatment).. thank you.

OrphanCrow

TD: I'm tempted to ask, "Why?"

That's easy. It had blood in it. Made from blood.

Of course it was prohibited. To fall in line with the argument that the blood phobia is a religious prohibition it should be prohibited. ALL blood products and such SHOULD be off-limits. If it was/is a sincere and valid religious belief.

That was the basis for prohibiting some of the vaccinations back in the day. I remember being told that I couldn't get vaccinations because it had been "grown" in chicken eggs and eggs sometimes had blood in them. Strangely enough, my mom would just pick out the blood from the eggs she cracked to cook with. But still, I didn't get vaccinated just in case a speck of blood made it into the serum or so I was told.

The WTS allows fractions, components, etc of blood. They do NOT prohibit blood like they claim they do. They control and select which parts of the blood can be used

It is not a religious belief.

It is a blood phobia.

18

When the “blood fractions” was available for any pacient as an alternative treatment?

by RodrigoGuerreiro in

sorry if my topic question was difficult to understand (english is not my native language).

i will like to know the year when the so called “blood fractions” was available as an alternative to a whole blood transfusion.

my question is triggered by the curiosity about how long jw died or put their life at risk, refusing that type of treatment before the year 2000 (when the “new light” allowed that type of treatment).. thank you.

OrphanCrow

Rodrigo: Imagine the immunoglobulin injections now they are “allowed” by the cult, but I think that for some amount of time (I don’t know specifically how much years ) they are presented by the medical community as an optional treatment and the JWs rejected that option because the blood prohibition.

That happened.

In particular, it happened with RhoGAM, a Rh immunoglobulin (RhIg). RhIg is an injectable drug given to women with Rh-negative blood during pregnancy. The main purpose of RhIg is to prevent problems in case baby has Rh-positive blood.

For an excellent summary of Rhogam and how it was handled by the WTS, read this link here:

Jehovah's Witnesses and the Rh Factor

by Marlene Mercado

A key point that Marlene talks about in her letter is that during the first 6 years that Rhogam was available and not used for JW women, several JW women would have developed antibodies that would have been them ideal blood donors. Donors who could have saved countless numbers of babies. But they couldn't and didn't donate their blood back to the donor pool so that other babies could live.

Rhogam was available in 1968, the WTS gave 'approval' six years later (buried in a footnote in a 1974 Questions from Readers).

TD: I believe the time lag you speak of does exist with experimental treatments and techniques. PolyHeme, for example was an experimental oxygen carrying blood substitute and it was used on some JW patients in actual clinical trials.
I'm not sure if this is a good example of what you had in mind though. PolyHeme was discontinued around 2009 because of its negative side effects.

Now we are speaking of a cat of a different color.

Artificial blood. Blood substitutes. Oxygen carriers.

These are made from hemoglobin. A blood "fraction". A blood component.

Here is where the Jehovah's Witnesses shine. This is how the development of blood substitutes/oxygen carriers has proceeded:

Development of product in lab using animals.

Released for use on Jehovah's Witness patients for "compassionate use".

Clinical trials.

Approved for use in general population.

You see, when it comes to blood "substitutes" or "artificial blood", the JWs move up in line. They are targeted for these developmental products. The JWs are the guinea pigs.

Where this is very evident is in the Fluosol trials back in the 70s. Fluosol's first human use was done on JWs - JWs who were targeted for a trial by the Japanese firm who produced it and the trials were implemented by those "pilot" HLC guys. That is why the JWs were such a prime group to try out an artificial blood product - they already had a "hot-line" set up with the Lapin group and also had a crew of JWs already connected to doctors and hospitals in Canada.

The Fluosol trials were undertaken, in the latter part of the 70s on the JW population...and thus the birth of the Hospital Liaison Committees.

Fluosol-DA almost made it out of the starting gate but it was eventually discontinued. However, that hasn't stopped the targeting of the JWs as a group that "requires" a blood substitute*.

Polyheme (made from expired human blood) was being used on JWs before clinical trials were announced. And Hemopure too - it was used on JWs first - it still hasn't made it through to the approval stage and only recently went back into production.

Never fear. When new artificial blood products become available, the JWs will be the first to receive it. That is the way it works. Dogs, bunnies, guinea pigs and monkeys first. JWs next. And then everybody else.

*and why do the JWs "require" an artificial blood product? Because they have been given a blood disorder by the WTS. A made-up blood disorder. A rare blood group. A made-up rare blood group.

18

When the “blood fractions” was available for any pacient as an alternative treatment?

by RodrigoGuerreiro in

sorry if my topic question was difficult to understand (english is not my native language).

i will like to know the year when the so called “blood fractions” was available as an alternative to a whole blood transfusion.

my question is triggered by the curiosity about how long jw died or put their life at risk, refusing that type of treatment before the year 2000 (when the “new light” allowed that type of treatment).. thank you.

OrphanCrow

Another question:
when the medicine presents the “blood fractions” treatments as a possibility for any patient?
(I know there will be a difference between the date of the “invention” of the technology involved to produce the sub-products and the date when they became widely available for the majority of the patients)

Rodrigo, I am not sure that I understand your question.

Can you clarify who you mean by "the majority of patients"? Do you mean the population at large?

Are you asking if there was a time lag between the blood products being available to the JW patient and being available to the general population? Or the other way around?

And, can you expand on your understanding of what blood fractions treatments actually are? How do you perceive these treatments?

142

Panpsychism - a philosophy with a future

by slimboyfat in

at one time scientists believed that living things and non-living things were made of different material, accounting for the unique properties of living things.

this idea is called vitalism and is no longer popular.

what does remain popular (in fact is still the dominant view) is a similar idea that things that experience the world (humans, frogs, mice) are different from things that don't experience the world (potatoes, rocks, snowflakes).

OrphanCrow

No, Hanged man, that is not what I was speaking about. I was speaking about "animism" - the ancient belief that all things (including rocks) are alive and animated.

Simple. Not complicated. Ancient belief system. Existed long before any woohoo "sacred text"

Philosophy of the future? I don't think so. Resurrection of an ancient belief system, maybe