so i'm watching john cedars commentary on the annual meeting from this last october, and at one point he shows a clip of garrett loesch talking about the struggles jehovah's witnesses faced decades before in the soviet union.
he claimed that police officers, maybe the kgb, infiltrated congregations which met in secret by studying with jehovah's witnesses, getting baptized, and then working their way up to becoming elders.
ceders jokes that this shows what kind of role holy spirit actually plays within body of elders, but another interpretation came to my mind just now.
john.prestor: Does anyone know of any proof whatsoever that something like this happened anywhere in the world within this organization?
For what it is worth, a released document from the CIA claims that the JWs in Greece were infiltrated by members of the KKE (Communist Party of Greece). Apparently the document was released in 1978 and it concerns events that happened post-WW2 in 1948:
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP82-00457R002100830008-3.pdf
this is simply disturbing and infuriating!.
the may 2019 wt has defiantly and arrogantly been released by the gb, and it is full of their disgusting excuses for not complying with authorities!.
(i have seen and read all the articles, but cant work out how to upload a link here - perhaps someone can assist?).
What I noticed about this latest offering by the great ones is that the advice they offer on how to "help" the victims is woefully inadequate.
"Offer comfort" by reading bible verses and "listening" and...well...just doing things that are condescending in nature reveals how little the GB/org knows about psychological counselling and the dynamics of how to help a victim. A victim doesn't need to be told to "put their tears in a skin bag" at the same time that somebody drops off cookies for them.
A victim needs to be given the tools that will allow them to gain their power back and there is nothing within the cult that empowers anyone, let alone the victim of sexual abuse.
i have just been informed that there is a 'special letter' to be read at the meetings week of feb 3,2019 in canada.
anybody heard of this!!
just a heads-up!
Rubadub: congregations in Saskatchewan will be reassigned to Alberta
Hahahaha!
And they will call it the Wall merger. (That's Brad ...not the wall)
* Oh... I forgot...all meetings will now be conducted in Chinese
january 29th - my baptism date.
can you remember how you felt at your baptism?.
i got baptised because my dad kept frightening me.
Nathan: age. Can I ask... what caused your Dad to fade? Why did your parents give up on the religion for which they once demonstrated such enthusiasm?
Yes, you can ask, Nathan.
It's complicated (what isn't?). My mother was adopted as an infant by JW parents - they had joined the cult back in the 1920s- before it was known as JWs. Then, hormones got in the way and she became pregnant with my older brother by a "worldly" boy - my father. He converted and became a dedicated JW.
Now, in retrospect, I know that my mother had mental health issues and she would go off the rails off and on and stop attending meetings but Dad was devout. He would take us kids to meetings and out in service whenever she was having a bout.
Mom and Dad's relationship was volitile and eventually he ended up working away from home a lot. Money was always a problem so my mom started working when I was about 9 or 10(?) and she ended up finding work waitressing. She eventually landed a job 'slinging beer' at one of the hotel bars. Better wage and better tips than cafe work.
Dad would come home off and on and take us kids to meetings but we had to go anyways when neither parent could take us - my older siblings were in charge of my attendance.
And then my dad became disillusioned. Mom was getting harder to handle and he went to the brothers for help with their marriage and they wouldn't help him ( not sure what he expected...). Instead, two brothers walked into the bar one day when mom was on shift, ordered a beer each, drank it and left. Mom was disfellowshipped shortly after and Dad never returned. He gave up.
It was important to both my parents that us kids remained JWs but I couldn't tolerate it. I confess to being privately ecstatic when mom was disfellowshipped - I could see a light at the end of the tunnel. And when dad stopped, I knew that I would eventually get a chance to escape. And I did! Fate set it up for me. I broke my ankle at the '71 summer assembly, used my leg cast as an excuse to stay home for the six weeks it was on and just stayed home once it was gone.
So, my mom got kicked out for "unchristian like behavior", my dad quit, they got divorced and dad eventually ended up in a common law relationship that lasted 45 years til his death last year. He never got a single visit from the "brothers" during all those years.
My mother appealed her disfellowshipping. She even wrote a letter to "The Society" and she received a letter back from them. I read it. Apparently, unchristian like behavior isn't grounds on its own and the local brothers were supposed to review her case. That didn't happen but I have a suspicion that my older brother gave testimony against her which gave them what they needed to make it stick.
* Fun trivia fact: my mom worked at a hotel bar that was owned by a widow. The widow's son moved to California once he came into his inheritance. He became one of the leaders of the Children of God.
january 29th - my baptism date.
can you remember how you felt at your baptism?.
i got baptised because my dad kept frightening me.
Phoebe: January 29th - my baptism date. Can you remember how you felt at your baptism?
I never did get baptized but I do remember 52 years ago. This photo was taken in the summer of '67 at an assembly in Canada.
That's my Dad leading that newly baptized person out of the pool. And that is me watching - the 10 year old girl at the side dressed in a green dress and white cardigan - I was so proud of my dad...he was the best as far as I was concerned. He always did the dunking at assemblies - a big strong farm boy that could handle most of the big and heavy ones getting baptized (he couldn't swim and almost got drowned a couple times!)
Mom and Dad had a rule in our house - you couldn't get baptized before you turned 16. So my older brother and sister did the deed but I never did. I wasn't very old when I figured out that being baptized meant that you could get into deep shit if you screwed up and then that meant that you missed the Paradise train.
However, being unbaptized meant that when I stopped going to meetings when I was 13/14, I became a target for any and all JWs that came into my world. By that time, my mom had been disfellowshipped and my dad was fading. Only my older bro and sis were part of the special elite class of the baptized ones with jehober's favor.
Shortly after I had quit attending meetings I got a visit from two of the "brothers" (pre-elder days), they were sneaky about it because they arrived within minutes after my mother leaving for work and I was home alone. They came inside and gave me the talk about "not making it through Armageddon" (which was going to be here in only a few years!!! damn that '75 crap). I was so upset that they had pushed their way into the house when I was by myself and I remember being really scared and nervous but determined not to give in. So when they threatened me with death at Armageddon, and actually said that "if Armageddon comes tomorrow, you won't make it", I responded with:
"Just going back to meetings won't save me. Because according to your teachings, I would be destroyed anyways. Unbaptized children are judged on the actions of their parents and you guys kicked my mom out and my dad has stopped going. I think you need to leave now."
They didn't know what to say...they left all red faced and then my mom blew her lid when she found out what they had done. Both those "brothers" got earful from her when she phoned them.
I am so so glad that I never did the water bath.
i personally feel that vaccinations are beneficial.
there has been a modern movement that vaccinations are more harmful than beneficial to which i disagree.
what is your stance as an ex jw on vaccinating your children?
Stonewall: They may say for them that Australia is the best place or New Zealand etc.
Does it mean that I'm right and they're wrong or vice versa or that either of us didn't research the respective places ahead of time before making a decision? Not at all.
You are right. Not at all.
On your way to trying to defend your comparison of apples and oranges, you have successfully demonstrated what bias is.
And, with this statement:
At the end of the day that is what it's all about is your health and what you're comfortable with and what seems to work for you.
You successfully demonstrate that your position is purely one of self centered "specialness". And that you have no understanding of herd immunity.
My health depends on others who can get vaccinated. I can't get most vaccinations.
i personally feel that vaccinations are beneficial.
there has been a modern movement that vaccinations are more harmful than beneficial to which i disagree.
what is your stance as an ex jw on vaccinating your children?
Stonewall: I can only speak from my experience...
...do your research
and...
my research I did over the years when I compared vaxxers to anti-vaxxers
Stonewall, you seem to have a distorted view of what research actually is.
Research is not personal experience. Personal observations are just that - personal. And with that comes heavy bias - personal bias. You have not done research. You have done biased observation. And from that springs all sorts of erroneous ideas and thoughts.
i personally feel that vaccinations are beneficial.
there has been a modern movement that vaccinations are more harmful than beneficial to which i disagree.
what is your stance as an ex jw on vaccinating your children?
OldNavy: Once vaccinated and "protected" there should be nothing to worry about. Why would it matter at all if some choose not to be vaccinated?
If vaccinations truly are effective those who've received them should be immune
It's not quite that simple, OldNavy.
Firstly, some vaccinations require regular updating. Secondly, vaccinations aren't just about yourself.
Example: whooping cough. At one time it was believed that either acquiring whooping cough or being vaccinated was lifetime immunity. It isn't.
Whooping cough has made resurgence recently (at least, it has where I live) and there are concerted efforts to re-vaccinate and update everyone regardless of age or prior exposure. The ordinary tetanus shot that you get after a cut or wound is now bundled with the whooping cough vaccine.
I sucked it up and got the vaccine (after a bad cut and needing a tetanus update), even though I had whooping cough as a newborn and have always thought I had immunity. I guess not. And I spent a few days in bed and in pain. It was worth it. Better than giving whooping cough to a baby and watching it gasp for breath and die.
*To add ... Babies can't get vaccinated for whooping cough before they are six months of age. We vaccinate ourselves to protect those babies
i personally feel that vaccinations are beneficial.
there has been a modern movement that vaccinations are more harmful than beneficial to which i disagree.
what is your stance as an ex jw on vaccinating your children?
cofty: anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, creationists, 9/11 conspiracy nutters - they are all the same sort.
The difference is that anti-vaxxers are a threat to children.
I would add "noblooders" to your list, Cofty.
All of the above are irrational people. They are more concerned with possible "harmful ingredients" than they are with the benefits of vaccines. For one thing, death from contracting a preventable disease is a far more harmful outcome than putting a vaccination into the body. Just like blood transfusions, they ignore the benefits and focus on a negligible possibility. Scared of their own shadow.
I was astounded when I read an article that parents are taking their children to "chicken pox parties". They actually believe that introducing a virus into their child's body is a better outcome than preventing a virus from permanently taking up residence in their child. They actually believe that chicken pox is a harmless childhood disease and have ignored completely that the same virus has a +30% chance of causing an adult who carries it untold suffering later in life. Adults who have had chicken pox as a child have a one in three chance of that virus erupting into a shingles outbreak. And yet those parents think they are doing their kids a favor by giving them chicken pox.
The anti-vax movement is a cult.
yep, we are back after taking some extended time off.. the jwleaks.org website had been archived for some time.
i was concentrating on other jw-related projects in relation to say sorry.. but the governing body of jehovah's witnesses, who no longer claim to be infallible, decided that in their fallibility the best use of 'dedicated funds' would be to launch civil action against me in a us federal court.
to this end watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, inc., sent their attorneys after me.
Corney: OC, this is not *his* list
Sorry. Bad choice of words. I should have said "the list in the OP"
JWLeaks, that is an awful lot of property and money.
