so, even if jws of the great crowd are found faithful and sparred at armageddon, they still have to prove faithful at the final judgement at the end of 1,000 years, right?
or, are jws of the great crowd assured they will pass the final judgement.
two tests doesnt sound fair!.
Well if I thought I had a progressive perfection in the new earth I would not want to be under the Watchtower rulership again leading us around in circles.
Many premillenialists just can't wait to rule over Isreal and the resurrected nations during their thousand years.
http://digital.vpr.net/post/vermont-sisters-sue-jehovahs-witnesses-child-sex-abuse.
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My daughter married a JW brother who had been molested for years by his uncle who was at one point an elder.
Needless to say the marriage didn't work out very well in the intimate department and they eventually divorced. She however came out of the big O thank God!
the watchtower told the elders cosmo rose and dennis black and eric macgufus whoall appeared on those videos, they were going to use the "full weight of the watchtower to remove those videos and take eric botorff to court", ask eric botorff if he has been to court to have his videos removed.
same thing with chriswilting and brother wally belt(a causality of meeting with eric, she said wally was deleted for having coffee with eric), each elder and former elder told my sister "we are working on getting those apostate videos down asap!
" it's been years since those videos, do you think the watchtower has any clout, if they did those videos would be removed, it's all bunk!
This happened to me maybe five days ago.
the watchtower told the elders cosmo rose and dennis black and eric macgufus whoall appeared on those videos, they were going to use the "full weight of the watchtower to remove those videos and take eric botorff to court", ask eric botorff if he has been to court to have his videos removed.
same thing with chriswilting and brother wally belt(a causality of meeting with eric, she said wally was deleted for having coffee with eric), each elder and former elder told my sister "we are working on getting those apostate videos down asap!
" it's been years since those videos, do you think the watchtower has any clout, if they did those videos would be removed, it's all bunk!
Hi folks
Thank you Oubliette for bringing this to my attention. I wondered why after touting JW Struggle videos to my X JW kids as a fun way of seeing and interacting with other former JW's their own age.
So I just get off the phone and when I click on Youtube JW Struggle Most of the video's are gone! So I go to JW Struggle.com and the whole format is different!
The Vimeo site was still under construction and I lost the link for it now. My kids must think I'm loosing it.
Have a great day Oldguy
please guys---how do i stop these damn pop up pages?.
everytime i click on something---another page pops up---often blank.. .
i'm running firefox and google chrome---with adblock plus on both.
Hi Bigmac
Well I'm 64 and still working with Windows XP.
The best free thing I ever downloaded as a system fix is called Advanced System Care 7.4
this will be the first time i have communicated with former witnesses in this manner, so please be patient with me as i figure out how this all works.. it would be great to find a brother in scotland who could trace the membership records of the knights templar division of the masonic lodge that russell belonged to.. if indeed he was a 32nd degree master mason in the order, then he would have been practicing secret rituals for a considerable number of years during his adult life in order to achieve the title of master mason and being referred to as "worshipful master".. small wonder he was so determined to have his father (a mason with powerful contacts) on board the original bible study group.. makes it somewhat more understandable how he was able to give lectures in carnagie hall, and attract financing donations during the early years of the society.. what more could the rich families in america that supported the early zionist movement ask for than to support zion's watchtower and it"s elitist form of heavenly class distictions.. there are claims that joseph rutherford was also a member of the same masonic lodge as his mentor charles russell.. all this begs us to ask can a rotten tree ever produce good fruit?
or can a crooked tree be made to grow straight?.
welcome your thoughts and comments.
Well, since I initiated this discussion I have learned some new things on the subject for which I am grateful.
I was adopted at 33 months old by a 32nd or 33rd degree Master mason, his wife was up the scale in the Eastern Star Society and both his brothers were 33 degree Schriners.
From my experience many clergymen in fundamentalist denominations did not want their membership in secret societys publically known.
If you were a past master in good standing and asked the lodge to investigate the membership roles you might get an honest investigation and truthful reply.
It would be like a worldly person requesting the WTS to inquire into the standing or private records of a JW elder. Good luck!
But Thanks again everyone for your contribution to the subject.
this will be the first time i have communicated with former witnesses in this manner, so please be patient with me as i figure out how this all works.. it would be great to find a brother in scotland who could trace the membership records of the knights templar division of the masonic lodge that russell belonged to.. if indeed he was a 32nd degree master mason in the order, then he would have been practicing secret rituals for a considerable number of years during his adult life in order to achieve the title of master mason and being referred to as "worshipful master".. small wonder he was so determined to have his father (a mason with powerful contacts) on board the original bible study group.. makes it somewhat more understandable how he was able to give lectures in carnagie hall, and attract financing donations during the early years of the society.. what more could the rich families in america that supported the early zionist movement ask for than to support zion's watchtower and it"s elitist form of heavenly class distictions.. there are claims that joseph rutherford was also a member of the same masonic lodge as his mentor charles russell.. all this begs us to ask can a rotten tree ever produce good fruit?
or can a crooked tree be made to grow straight?.
welcome your thoughts and comments.
Hello Again
Well, as one who was terminated from the flock (the year Ray Franz wrote his second wonderful volume (1993) for apostacy against the organization and speaking out against holy ones., I might well be guilty again!
As Ron Frye always said to me, Consider that there may be a third alternative. Psydomason/templar ?
I want to thank all who have commented thus far on the subject. I have heard convincing argumentation on both sides of the table as to Russell's actual membership and appreciate your additional input.
How many think the Watchtower organization will eventually split into several groups some Unitarian and some Trinitarian as the older adventist Worldwide Church of God did? (Armstrong/Ambassidor college)
Thanks again Oldguy
this will be the first time i have communicated with former witnesses in this manner, so please be patient with me as i figure out how this all works.. it would be great to find a brother in scotland who could trace the membership records of the knights templar division of the masonic lodge that russell belonged to.. if indeed he was a 32nd degree master mason in the order, then he would have been practicing secret rituals for a considerable number of years during his adult life in order to achieve the title of master mason and being referred to as "worshipful master".. small wonder he was so determined to have his father (a mason with powerful contacts) on board the original bible study group.. makes it somewhat more understandable how he was able to give lectures in carnagie hall, and attract financing donations during the early years of the society.. what more could the rich families in america that supported the early zionist movement ask for than to support zion's watchtower and it"s elitist form of heavenly class distictions.. there are claims that joseph rutherford was also a member of the same masonic lodge as his mentor charles russell.. all this begs us to ask can a rotten tree ever produce good fruit?
or can a crooked tree be made to grow straight?.
welcome your thoughts and comments.
Hello everyone
This will be the first time I have communicated with former witnesses in this manner, so please be patient with me as I figure out how this all works.
It would be great to find a brother in Scotland who could trace the membership records of the Knights Templar division of the Masonic lodge that Russell belonged to.
If indeed he was a 32nd degree master mason in the order, then he would have been practicing secret rituals for a considerable number of years during his adult life in order to achieve the title of Master Mason and being referred to as "Worshipful Master".
Small wonder he was so determined to have his father (a mason with powerful contacts) on board the original bible study group.
Makes it somewhat more understandable how he was able to give lectures in Carnagie Hall, and attract financing donations during the early years of the society.
What more could the rich families in America that supported the early Zionist movement ask for than to support Zion's Watchtower and it"s elitist form of heavenly class distictions.
There are claims that Joseph Rutherford was also a member of the same masonic lodge as his mentor Charles Russell.
All this begs us to ask Can a rotten tree ever produce good fruit? or Can a crooked tree be made to grow straight?
Welcome your thoughts and comments. Have a great day.
oldguy
