Posts by Alive!

148

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

by cofty in

the following is an extract from something i wrote 16 years ago soon after leaving the watchtower.

i am posting it because it may help honest jws consider how far their beliefs are at odds with new testament christians.

if they have "the truth" then their attitude to jesus ought to reflect that of the apostles.

Alive!

Yes Faye, your observation is spot on.....Jehovah has become interchangeable with 'the slave' and 'the organisation'.

Just like you, I started reading the scriptures without a WT 'study aid' publication, compared the pattern of phrasing and language - the early Christians were all about Jesus....everything was for Jesus.... Or God, the father.

I suspect they are changing this - guess they are turning more towards mainstream Christendom.

PS is there a scripture where Jesus invites his listeners to be Jehovah's friend?

14

The Kingdom Hall

by TheLiberator in

i know i have mentioned this on other posts.

as a born-in, i was obsessed with the watchtower.

it was god's organization.

Alive!

Heartfelt words in this thread - and I totally get the reaction to 'cult-speak' - I kind of always had been aware of this pattern of words throughout certain JWs speech - the 'slave' is used a great deal now by the sounds of things - back in the 80s it was the 'remnant' the 'annointed' the '144000' - because back then I was taught that globally the 'remnant' get 'truths' from Jehovah that they share at HQ, by calling in, writing or some other means.....

But so true that it would be defeating 'liberation' from cultic thinking if we adopt more black and white perceptions of how we view our fellow humans....it's a tough old wrangle of the mind, emotions and Lord knows what.

I have made a right pigs ear of my unofficial 'exit' - my lack of patience wore out when I kept centering on questions that I felt should be clearly answered, not for us 'innies' but for those who may observe our ways.....although no-one dared to come back and provide a fair answer and eventually dropped contact etc -so there you go. Hope they don't get asked the same question with an interested person.....because no one I appealed to appeared to do the homework required to give a fair and honest reply.

Or perhaps they did - and the answer terrified them.

My faith is inclusive, I guess it always was, sort of - we are all on a journey.

And for the Christian 'disciple' - well, plenty of warnings what to look for when 'the way' goes 'awry'.

Thanks for writing your heart out @Liberator - it helps us all to think, rethink and move in the best way we can.... And wise words from PeteZahut.

Thanks everyone.

148

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

by cofty in

the following is an extract from something i wrote 16 years ago soon after leaving the watchtower.

i am posting it because it may help honest jws consider how far their beliefs are at odds with new testament christians.

if they have "the truth" then their attitude to jesus ought to reflect that of the apostles.

Alive!

Cofty,

Just referred to this post and article -I know it's old and you've moved past believing in God etc...but thank you for taking the time to point out all these scriptures.....

A few years ago, these same thoughts were going on in my mind - I noticed in scripture that most letters by the apostles begin with reference to God and our Lord Jesus Christ' - and I thought, why not to Jehovah and our Lord Jesus Christ etc.

Surely, if making Jehovah's name known was a huge part of the preaching work, you'd think they'd begin each letter, clearly to Jehovah or 'LORD' ....

But Paul and others consistently refer to God, they use God instead of Jehovah exactly where you'd expect 'Jehovah' to be the obvious usage....except in quoting Hebrew scripture that contains the Tetragrammaton - and NWT use Jehovah there.

I was out with a darling sister one day - full time pioneer, been to pioneer school etc - and after a study I shared some thoughts, using Jesus name, more than Jehovah's name, I didn't get weird or anything by the way - (By the way I noted she had sidetracked on some fairly direct questions from the 'study' as they didn't fit in with the study programme' )

I'll always remember she laughed nervously at some point and said 'alive! You sound like one of those happy clappy Baptist types!'

Actually, I'd simply followed the language format of the early Christian writers......incorporating it into our spiritual discussion, instead of saying Jehovsh every other word.

I know you don't believe - but I know you'll sympathise with my point.....it was really disturbing at the time!

9

JWs' love to brag about preaching but.....

by pleaseresearch in

if what they are preaching about is untrue and false, does it really count?

i mean over the 100 years plus we have been going, how much of what we taught was absolute crap.

how many things taught about never came true.

Alive!

In all the time I was a baptised and converted JW, we had maybe two or three converts who had zero family who were JWs - one was spectacularly mentally unstable, two or three others were more or less frog marched to each meeting and mysteriously disappeared after baptism.

I remember one summer morning, on field service in a beautiful part of our city, in an Avenue of trees and delightful well kept homes....we knocked on the open door of one of these family homes....and out rushed two flushed children yelling 'nana! Grandad!' And then of course they realised their grandparents had not arrived yet - but just minutes later, the grandparents turned up.

This little family looked so happy - their Mother politely and smilingly listened to my shortened version of a 'presentation' whilst behind her, I could see open doorways into a garden where kids were laughing and playing and it was 'family time'.

I thought about all the hoops and heart wrenching chaos this family would go through if 'mum' became a witness and and as I reviewed the awkwardly and garishly illustrated little magazine I held in my hand which hardly 'reached the heart' I wondered what an earth we were really doing, as I joined our straggling group that morning whose attitude was 'they have their paradise now'.

These people, these householders weren't turning down or rejecting God -- I knew this ....and another nail went in my coffin of trust.

30

not all JW's are asleep

by Damascus in

jw
friends

i am an 'active' jw but i do not agree with most of the doctrines inc blood, baptism, the memorial etc etc.i took the emblems at the memorial because i think we all should recognise and accept jesus' command to remember him.

not for one minute do i think this is only for the so called anointed.

i know it is full of man made error and that my fellow brothers and sisters are in a state of mindless, spiritual unawareness.

Alive!

I feel for your torment - I do agree that the Jw.org's culture creates paranoia, lack of trust and all manner of unhealthy behaviours amongst JWs.

Once your ears tune into the 'manipulative' language used in the literature - you realise you are not hearing the voice of Christ, but a different voice....the illustrations, the 'real life' stories - it wasnt a cynical heart that started to feel ill at ease with the nature of their communication to us and the world - it was a heart that actually hurt because I knew it was wrong, something was terribly wrong.

It sounds to me, like you know in your heart where this is heading - keep building on your inner strength - and if at times you feel overwhelmed by fear of what comes next - keep firm and ask yourself, would I wish this burden of conflict on anyone? It will help you to straighten up and face the music.....

79

Plans for huge Jehovah's HQ take shape

by Formerbrother in

http://www.chelmsfordweeklynews.co.uk/news/11227290.plans_for_huge_jehovah_s_hq_take_shape/.

its going to be a real beautiful place when its finished.. they are going for quality over quantity.

it used to be accommodation for a few thousand permanent residents, now its looking like less than a thousand permanent with the possibility of a few thousand more in temporary accommodation should the need arise.. some say the plans are going to be like a garden of eden in england :) i mean they had farming in london over the years but this is going to be epic what they are planning for temple farm at chelmsford.. they are planting thousands (literally) of fruit trees, including tropical fruits in huge green houses, huge vines yards and then the same basic farming activities as before.

Alive!

My husband asked the other day 'where is the faith in a God who will provide?'

Why all this earthly accumulation of property? Expensively built and decorated?

'In this final hour' - hours upon hours and millions upon millions of donated cash are spent locked into property development - meanwhile, this does not spread a message to the world of self sacrifice, Christian endeavour.... no charitable works, schools, hospitals - just luxury appointed real estate for the 'few'

For a long, long time as a convert I couldnt but help 'watch' and check my trust and faith in men who claim to be Christ's only representatives, that is my scriptural responsibility as a Christian, the warnings are there after all, for a reason -and over twenty odd years I observed all this property change, I've seen so much expenditure wasted, truly wasted - so many man hours spent cleaning what is clean, looking after property, objects - whilst individuals bled on the way side....

This isn't representative of the early christian way. Is it? I mean - is it????

Such a confusing message is sent out to the world by the WT aka JW.org.

And they still haven't addressed many contradicting and 'stumbling' doctrines, including the blood doctrine where fractions, from donated blood are not deemed an evil offence to God....( and yes, I know - the whole doctrine is wrong anyway)

When I was still in, very active and even aux pioneering - the obsession with our 'properties' was disturbing to me....what with cleaning, building, repairing, studying 'books', preparing for meetings, attending meetings and 'getting hours in' - we were left with little time to spend critical and meaningful time with those in need.

That time was scooped out of what was left. Quite sad, isn't it?

79

Plans for huge Jehovah's HQ take shape

by Formerbrother in

http://www.chelmsfordweeklynews.co.uk/news/11227290.plans_for_huge_jehovah_s_hq_take_shape/.

its going to be a real beautiful place when its finished.. they are going for quality over quantity.

it used to be accommodation for a few thousand permanent residents, now its looking like less than a thousand permanent with the possibility of a few thousand more in temporary accommodation should the need arise.. some say the plans are going to be like a garden of eden in england :) i mean they had farming in london over the years but this is going to be epic what they are planning for temple farm at chelmsford.. they are planting thousands (literally) of fruit trees, including tropical fruits in huge green houses, huge vines yards and then the same basic farming activities as before.

Alive!

So many JWs are stocking up on silver eh?

Ah yes, just like Paul, Peter, John and other examples.

And lots of money and attention is spent on buildings, 'quality' park-like resorts - ah yes, just as Paul, Peter, John and others would have directed in the last days.....oh wait, hold on, I can't see any of that kind of direction in the bible?

People on the 'outside' don't look on and say 'yikes, this JWs mean business when they say the end is absolutely any day now'.

Materialistic eyes may be impressed.....but does it drive home the message of Christ?

43

WT Resurrection Hope Absolutely Ridiculous As Illustrated In Their Publications

by JW_Rogue in

saw this while browsing through the good news brochure:.

is it any wonder people aren't listening to jws anymore?

what an absolutely delusional scene!

Alive!

Guess Pirates are kind of hip for kids...there was yet another illustration in a publication showing a child teaching a resurrected pirate somewhere ....darn, can't remember where it was....

See, stuff like this raises my awareness regarding 'selling' a faith, seeking to appeal to a kid's world - suppose a real pirate is more exciting.....they've used this character more than once...someone in the writing department thinks 'Pirates' sell the goods, appeals to kids....and they would be right.

So, even if you don't believe in Christ - you can see how this sure isn't about appealing to the heart re Christ....it's about adventure, The cool fun of meeting a pirate in the 'new system' -

And they sneer at Christendom........

Man, I'm tired.....just glad I don't feel compelled to deliver their Disney hype anymore, they cheapen the glory.

43

WT Resurrection Hope Absolutely Ridiculous As Illustrated In Their Publications

by JW_Rogue in

saw this while browsing through the good news brochure:.

is it any wonder people aren't listening to jws anymore?

what an absolutely delusional scene!

Alive!

So.....

A JW friend at her non JWs father's funeral ( none of her family are JWs) followed her non-JW siblings' heart felt speeches about their love for their Dad, Mother and family life at the funeral by saying that she can't wait to meet her Father in the resurrection, and that she has kept his golf clubs in happy anticipation of seeing him again and playing golf with Dad in the resurrection she went onto give a full on 'witness' - this in the presence of a grieving non JW family and in opposition to the direct desire of her non- JW Father that his funeral should be entirely secular.

I felt she absolutely trespassed and trampled over decency....just my take.

Nothing spiritual going on there - just material cravings.....strangely her 'moment' of glory in terms of giving a witness at her non JW s father funeral somehow failed to grab the attention of 'truth seekers'.

By the way, she isn't a nut case but a very able, high money earning professional.

Believe me....so crazy.

11

Ronnie Corbett.

by karter in

jw
friends

and it's good nite from him.. one of the greatest comedians of my lifetime,he never used foul language he and ronnie barker were just truly funny.. i always enjoyed he two ronnie's.. rip.. karter.

.

Alive!

In an interview he said he hand-washed his own cashmere sweaters - bless him. Gosh those Ronnies made us laugh - loved seeing little Ronnie on WILTY recently - so sad but what a wonderful life he had with his lovely Anne.

RIP Ronnie - you are a legend.