Posts by CharlieSmith1975

26

Source material: "144,000" and "anointed" in The Watchtower, 2000-2015

by Doug Mason in

a collation of statements made in the watchtower from 2000 to 2015 of "144,000" and "anointed".

http://www.jwstudies.com/wt_magazines_from_2000_to_2015_on_144000_and_the_anointed.pdf .

doug.

CharlieSmith1975

Dear Mr. Mason.

You have a lot of questions reflecting your doubts and skepticism, it would seem.

I trust the Bible based on what I believe and in part on my own experiences and research. But as I've learned over time, much of what one person sees and understand is not transferable.

As far as exactly where "heaven" is, I really have no idea. But it also doesn't matter since I believe God exists in dimensions not related to the physical world or even related to our concept of time. I know, relatively speaking, often when angels come to the earth they are spoken of as going "down" into the earth. Actually, and I have no real basis for this, I think the universe is like an ornament of sorts in the middle of the floor in front of God's thrown, like a black whole. The Bible says the earth is God's "footstool." So when angels go into the universe they go into this object at God's feet. Nothing I can prove though.

In your case, I think you want not to believe without proof. But while I don't need "proof" for everything I believe, I wouldn't believe if you were able to actually disprove it. So we are on opposite sides of that equasion. So I can still believe what is not disproved and you can't believe what is not proved. That's okay. We need more skeptics in the world, actually, I think.

Have a great day.

13

Flogging the Vat 4956 horse

by MightierThanTheSword in

i'm just curious about something & wonder if the experts could help.. basically i am documenting all of the main lines of evidence for the jws being the one & then investigating each claim systematically.. i have now reached the dreaded november 1st, 2011 watchtower & am sitting in front of a copy of cartes du ciel and a babylonian calendar converter i found at http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~gent0113/babylon/babycal_converter.htm.

i realise these claims have been challenged and documented in depth elsewhere, but i'm keen to do my own research rather than copy & paste.

my question is regarding date conversion - when inputting the gregorian dates as given at the bottom of the tablet's translation i found at http://www.caeno.org/pdf/f019_translation.pdf then the lunar positions all seemed pretty close (visually, i wasn't dealing with exact degrees here).

CharlieSmith1975

Actually, if I understand what is going on, I think you need to supplement your investigation with a good astronomy program. There are lots of them out there that I think are reliable but some easier to use than others.

At this stage of investigation though, you need to realize there are some relative issues as far as any given date. That's because the location you reference will make a difference in the date. May 1st in one place at noon might be May 2nd at Midnight in another place. So every seeming discrepancy may not be a true discrepancy.

Also, the WTS only recently extended conversation about the VAT4956. Their focus document otherwise was a document called the "Strm. Kambyses 400" where they confirm the 7th year of Kambyses in 523 BC which relates to the return from Babylon in 537 BC. So be sure to also check out the Kambyses text. The VAT4956 and the Strm. Kambyses 400 are the only two eclipses specifically referenced in "The Crime of Claudius Ptolemy" by Robert R. Newton. Those two texts become the center of focus for this period and they are very similar in that both are "copies" from the Seleucid Period and both are in the form of a "diary."

The WTS likes the Strm. Kambyses 400 because it supports their 537 BC return from Babylon upon which their 607 BC dating is derived. But they don't like the VAT4956 because it points to year 37 in 568 BC, which contradicts their dating to 588 BC. Only now they like the VAT4956 because Line 3 describes the "moon as 1 cubit in front of beta-Virginis" on the 9th of Nisan, which is a mismatch for 568 BC, but amazingly a match for 588 BC. This works for them even if it is just confusing since clearly all the planetary references only match 568 BCE and they know this.

Enjoy your studies!

40

Flier on "Day and Week of Christ's Death" to be mailed out to Kingdom Halls this week!

by CharlieSmith1975 in

the tricky thing about a mass mailing to all the kingdom halls is that mail is often not delivered to the kingdom hall but to a po box.

it is super easy to get all the addresses to hundreds of kingdom halls across the country and even have those addresses printed out for you as labels!

but when i did that before i got about a third of them back.

CharlieSmith1975

Village Idiot

Charlie, With all due respect, I think that you need to meditate on this and your beliefs before sending anything out.// ROFL! Did you read any of the flier? This is just saying that the Jews made a holiday out of the night they left Egypt, the same night they ate Passover. That's a no-brainer! If the Jews left on the 15th that night after Passover then Jesus was arrested at the same time, on the 15th. How hard is that to comprehend? And it's not going to change. There's nothing to meditate on. The ONLY significant thing here is that the WTS is teaching something different and need to update. I'm getting the elders in certain cities to put pressure on them to do it. As long as everybody is in the dark like the WTS wants then they can keep everybody fooled and in the dark. OTOH, the faithful anointed will have this information now to accuse the WTS. The WTS is now made up of the wise and foolish virgins. The wise virgins are the secret anointed, the foolish virgins are still the public anointed associated with and worshipping the WTS. The flier confirms Jehovah's disapproval of the WTS. It's symbolic, though and only needs to have a few witnesses. The Bible says the "false prophet" will be destroyed in the lake of fire "while still alive" meaning it will be an active organization at the time of its destruction. The flier simply proves it. But as some say, whose paying attention at this point? Anyone who was going to be saved by this is already saved. All those who would not be saved are still not interested. As prophesied! (i.e. "They took no note until the flood came and swept them away.")

@charlie what pot are you smoking?//

Nothing! What gives? Are you brain dead? This is SIMPLE STUFF. If I told you that Jesus rose on a Saturday night and he was supposed to be in the grave three nights so WHICH THREE NIGHTS WERE JESUS IN THE GRAVE? Then that's a Third-Grade answer. So what do you think? Can you figure it out? This tells us what day of the week Jesus died on. Period. But it's simple math.

So why not HUMOR ME, okay? I'll ask you a simple question: What three nights do you believe Jesus was in the grave? That's simple. Direct. What is your response? In three words? It is not more complicated than that.

110

Four Blood Moons might be significant

by CharlieSmith1975 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuqzhnx7xma.

the bible does say that the "day of jehovah" (armageddon) would be associated with the sun becoming dark followed by the moon turning to blood.

but the moon turning to blood is specific to a total lunar eclipse.

CharlieSmith1975

"The world may drastically change after April 4th....."

Well if that is the case, I am going to wait to file my taxes! //

hahaha! Not if you're due for a REFUND! Get the money now as soon as you can so you'll have some cash on hand. In fact, that is also what I'll do. Make sure I have some cash instead of depending on the banks or credit. Glad you brought this up!!!

110

Four Blood Moons might be significant

by CharlieSmith1975 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuqzhnx7xma.

the bible does say that the "day of jehovah" (armageddon) would be associated with the sun becoming dark followed by the moon turning to blood.

but the moon turning to blood is specific to a total lunar eclipse.

CharlieSmith1975

So, no, you aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is. You've no faith in your made up prophecies.

Lame.//

It's not a prophecy, it's an ALERT.

But what's the big deal. Having a week's supply of water and canned goods is what everybody should be doing anyway. You never know when there will be a power outage or martial law in the times we live in. I'm just SHARING what is going on with me. I'm not that sure about these moons. God didn't send an angel down to tell me "this is it! These are the eclipses that will happen before the great tribulation so make sure you have plenty of water and can goods for a week."

I'm just NOTING some people are talking about it, it is a rather rare event falling on Jewish holidays, and the Bible does imply two eclipses will precede the great day of God the Almighty. So I'm just saying, let's see what happens. If something happens, meaning the UN takes over world rule, which begins the "great day of God the Almighty" then those two eclipses would fulfill that prophecy. I'm not claiming anything. I'm just saying, if in fact, two eclipses are implied in scripture, then these might just be the two because the UN is getting ready to form a world government. It's inevitable. The global economy demands it. No country can operate on its own any more and Barack Obama is already the head of the UN Security Council and saying "peace and security." So. smile

I'm just saying, be prepared. Make sure you have extra water and some non-perishables to stay at home and off the streets for a week. Doesn't that make sense? Just in case?

26

Source material: "144,000" and "anointed" in The Watchtower, 2000-2015

by Doug Mason in

a collation of statements made in the watchtower from 2000 to 2015 of "144,000" and "anointed".

http://www.jwstudies.com/wt_magazines_from_2000_to_2015_on_144000_and_the_anointed.pdf .

doug.

CharlieSmith1975

JWs have a misconception of the 144,000. The 144,000 are the natural Jews in the kingdom. The "source" for understanding the 144,000 is Isa. 6:13

"13 “But there will still be a tenth in it, and it will again be burned, like a big tree and like an oak, which after they are cut down leave a stump; a holy seed* will be its stump.”

In other words, yes the Jews fail and their tree is cut down, but God leaves a holy root. That holy root is the 144,000 made up of natural Jews, 12K from each tribe. The rest of the tree are the grated in gentiles who make up 90% of the tree, which is 1,440,000 total.

JWs don't understand this. Thanks for pointing out their false teaching in this regard.

Charlie

1

Source material on "1935"

by Doug Mason in

early watchtower sources dealing with the identification in 1935 of the great crowd:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/1935_in_divine_purpose_and_contemporary_publications.pdf .

doug.

CharlieSmith1975

The parable of the vineyard workers confirm that the WTS would have a 2-class system. That is, the first-hour workers are promised the penny, meaning heavenly hope. But from the third-hour workers to the 11th-hour workers they are promised "whatever is fair" and thus work for less than the penny. Thus you have two groups of workers, those who know in advance they will get the penny and those who don't think they will.

3.5 years is a half hour so 1 hour is 7 years. So the vineyard work is a total of 77 years from 1914 to 1991 (1914 + 77 = 1991). The workers are paid during the 12th hour, from 1991-1998, from the last to the first. But as you can see, 21 years after 1914 is 1935, which is when the third-hour workers would have shown up. So 1935 is a valid, Biblical reference for the WTS.

What is sad is that the WTS didn't realize that after the work ALL the workers would be offered the penny. That is, all the "other sheep": become anointed and of the heavenly class. The faithful ones, that is. But that doesn't mean there will not be an earthly class.

As Isa 6:13 notes, there is a tree that is chopped down but the root is left remaining in it, which is a tenth. So the 144,000 are really that root, the remnant Jewish root of 144,000, with 12,000 from each tribe. That means the total number in the kingdom is 1,440,000. So there were more than enough seats in the kingdom to invite all the faithful other sheep between 1991-1998.

Anyway, that's for your information regarding 1935 and the two-class system. It's Biblical and fulfilled with JWs. The 144,000 are the natural Jews, one tenth of the whole. the entire heavenly class is 1,440,000.

40

Flier on "Day and Week of Christ's Death" to be mailed out to Kingdom Halls this week!

by CharlieSmith1975 in

the tricky thing about a mass mailing to all the kingdom halls is that mail is often not delivered to the kingdom hall but to a po box.

it is super easy to get all the addresses to hundreds of kingdom halls across the country and even have those addresses printed out for you as labels!

but when i did that before i got about a third of them back.

CharlieSmith1975

Follow the idea or format that the dumbed down jw tracts now use:

three questions, three answers, one page... //

Actually, that is the inherent design. Note I have 8 topics. Note how short the answers are to each topic? Save the last one maybe. All 8 together make for a long discussion but taken individually, each topic is quite short.

WATCH:

DID Jesus die on a Friday? Per the Bible he is in the grave for three nights and so that means he must die on a Thursday, since if Saturday night, the night he rose, is the third night then the first night must be a Thursday.

See? Very simple. Just a few words. If you ask a JW "What three nights was Jesus in the grave?" they draw a blank.

So I can't lose here. It's great!

Thanks for the suggestions, though.

But don't forget this will be like Noah's Day. People claiming they are too busy to pay attention and then when they get whacked they will want a second chance. You have to grab the light when it is present. Once the light is gone, there will be just darkness and it will be too late. Showing a lack of interest in getting saved is costly at this point. What is more important right now? This is not the time to not pay attention, especially over just 2 pages?

40

Flier on "Day and Week of Christ's Death" to be mailed out to Kingdom Halls this week!

by CharlieSmith1975 in

the tricky thing about a mass mailing to all the kingdom halls is that mail is often not delivered to the kingdom hall but to a po box.

it is super easy to get all the addresses to hundreds of kingdom halls across the country and even have those addresses printed out for you as labels!

but when i did that before i got about a third of them back.

CharlieSmith1975

Thanks for the suggestions, but some undercover stuff is actually going on here. Basically, there is an underground group of secret anointed ones still active in the organization. It relates to the five wise virgins and the five foolish virgins parable. The five wise virgins have the added understanding because they are intensely interested in the detailed things in scripture. The foolish virgins don't have the time and generally don't want to be bothered with the extra work to wake up their brains. So the flier is not for the sleepy, but for the alert. So in sending this out to a lot of congregations in a concentrated area, like in the Los Angeles Area, then some of the secret "wise virgin" anointed will get this information. It's for them and they will then know what to do with the information.

This is part of the fall of the WTS. The WTS is the "temple" sect. They fulfill the "temple in its right condition" and become God's house. They are like the tribe of Levi in Christendom. Christendom is like the Christian 12 tribes of Israel, which are God's chosen people under the Christian covenant. But one sect would become the temple sect, like the tribe of Levi, which is the WTS. But as the Bible says, the "man of lawlessness" rises up in God's own house, meaning it takes over God's house which is the WTS and thus the GB is actually the MOL. That makes them also the "evil slave" and also the "false prophet." In Revelation the "false prophet" is also the Lamb-Dragon beast that comes out of the earth. The "earth" represents the WTS; the sea represents Christendom. The 666-beast that comes out of the sea is the trinity-believing religions of Christendom. 666=trinity.

At any rate, this flier confirms to the secret anointed that light and understanding is no longer channeled through the GB but it coming from the "wise virgin" anointed class out here. They need this formula for establishing the true date of Jesus' death and confirming the WTS was kept in the dark by Jehovah on this one.

But I guess one way the WTS dodges a lot of bullets is simply by remaining dumb and not reading anything, not knowing anything that will shatter their faith. It works! When I talk to some witnesses that is what they do. They refuse to think about it or talk about it and reaffirm that they get all their information from the WTS! They claim if Jehovah is going to correct a false teaching, he will do it through the WTS. So they are already lost. But the elders on up can't escape because they have to defend the organization.

So in the context of the "great tribulation" possibly occurring after the April 4th eclipse, some will get a hint that they are in a false religion and are about to be destroyed. It's too late to escape now. As I said, the lamb-dragon beast represents the WTS' Governing Body and the 666-Beast represents Christendom. But BOTH of them are killed at the same time in the lake of fire. That's about to happen. PROOF the WTS is apostate is in that flier. It shows the WTS is completely clueless about how Passover works. It's a subtle attack on their worship of the GB. It forces them to choose the Bible or the organization.

40

Flier on "Day and Week of Christ's Death" to be mailed out to Kingdom Halls this week!

by CharlieSmith1975 in

the tricky thing about a mass mailing to all the kingdom halls is that mail is often not delivered to the kingdom hall but to a po box.

it is super easy to get all the addresses to hundreds of kingdom halls across the country and even have those addresses printed out for you as labels!

but when i did that before i got about a third of them back.

CharlieSmith1975

Here's the flier! Fits on 2 pages.

=======

WHAT DO JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES TEACH ABOUT THE DAY AND WEEK OF JESUS’ DEATH?

1. Jehovah’s witnesses teach that Jesus died on Friday, Nisan 14th, in 33 CE.

2. They teach that Jesus sent two disciples out on Nisan 13th to prepare for the Passover meal prior to sunset, but that the lamb was killed immediately after sunset.

3. They teach that the date changed at sunset from Nisan 13th to Nisan 14th and thus Jesus is killed within 24 hours of when the lamb was killed just after sunset.

4. Thus they teach that the time in the Bible called “between the two evenings” was the short time between sundown and nightfall.

5. The Bible says that Jesus was killed on a day of preparation, the day before a Sabbath day; thus they teach that the Passover meal was eaten on a day of preparation.

6. They teach that Jesus’ impalement at the “third hour” occurred at 9 a.m. on Friday, Nisan 14th.

7. They teach that Jesus rose on early Sunday morning before sunrise on Nisan 16th and that Jesus appeared the following 40 days before his ascension, meaning Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost 10 days after Jesus ascended to heaven.

8. In their publication “Insight On The Scriptures” (1:1153) under “Hour” they claim they cannot explain how it is that Jesus is said to have been impaled at the third hour of the day at Mark 15:25, and yet his trial at John 19:14 is said to have occurred at the sixth hour. That is, unless two different methods of calculating the hour were used in the Bible, which is not readily apparent, it would appear that Jesus’ trial at the sixth hour, which is at noon, occurred 3 hours after he was impaled at 9 a.m.

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TEACH ABOUT THE DAY AND WEEK OF JESUS’ DEATH?

1. The Bible teaches that Jesus died on a Thursday before “three nights” (Matt. 12:40) in the grave. Jesus rose on a Saturday night. If Saturday night was the third night, then the first night would have been a Thursday night. That means Jesus must die on a Thursday according to the Bible.

2. Luke 22:7 clearly indicates that Jesus sent out two disciples to prepare for the Passover meal on the same day the lambs were killed and then came to eat the meal after sunset. Thus the Passover meal is eaten after sunset of the day the lambs are killed. Jewish tradition and history reflect that the Passover lambs were killed at the temple in Jerusalem beginning the ninth hour. Thus one disciple had to take the lamb to the temple to be killed that afternoon after 3 p.m. to be eaten after sunset. This is consistent with the Bible’s statement that the disciples were sent out on the day the lambs were killed to be eaten the next day after sunset.

3. When the Jews first left Egypt, they followed Egyptian custom of not changing the date until midnight as we do now. Thus the date did not change from Nisan 14th to the 15th until midnight. The same night the Jews left Egypt is the same night they ate Passover. The night the Jews left Egypt was the 15th of Nisan, not the 14th. Passover is said to be eaten on the 14th because the Passover meal ends at midnight when the angel of death comes. But after midnight the date changes to the 15th and thus the Jews are said leave that same night as Passover was eaten, but on the 15th.

4. The Jews had a concept of two mornings and two evenings. One morning began at midnight and another at sunrise. Likewise, they had a corresponding concept of one evening beginning at noon and another at sunset. So for the Jews, the time halfway “between the two evenings” was 3 p.m., which is when the lambs are customarily killed at the temple.

5. Nisan 14th, the day the lambs are killed at 3 p.m. is a day of preparation. But once sunset took place, it became the Sabbath. Thus Passover is always eaten on a special Sabbath day of Passover week, the first day of unfermented cakes. Passover is never eaten on a day of preparation. As the Bible says, the 1st day of unfermented cakes begins on Nisan 14th, in the evening (Ex 12:18). That’s because the date did not change at sunset but not until midnight. So just as the Jews are said to have left Egypt on the 15th shortly after Passover ended at midnight, then Jesus would have been arrested about the same time, Nisan 15th, a Sabbath day, not Nisan 14th, a day of preparation.

6. Per the Bible the third hour of impalement would have been at 9 p.m. following Jesus’ trial at Noon. In 33 CE, his trial would have occurred at noon (sixth hour) on Wednesday, Nisan 19th and he would have been impaled at 9 p.m. (third hour). Then at noon the following day, Thursday, a day of preparation, there was darkness for three hours prior to Jesus’ death at the ninth hour (3 p.m.) on Thursday, Nisan 20th.

7. Since Jesus died on Thursday, Nisan 20th, he would have risen early Sunday morning on the 23rd, seven days after the 16th. After appearing for 40 days, Jesus would have ascended just three days before Pentecost rather than 10 days before Pentecost. That is, the 120 disciples were in the upper room for only 3 days awaiting Holy Spirit rather than ten days.

8. When it is understood that Jesus died on a Thursday, which was Nisan 20th in 33 CE, there is no problem with the time of Jesus’ final trial occurring at noon prior to his impalement at the following third hour, which would have been at 9 p.m. That’s because there is no imperative for Jesus dying the same day he eats Passover or the same day he is arrested. Instead, Jesus would have eaten the Passover meal on Nisan 14th, which was Friday evening after sunset. After midnight it became the 15th and Jesus went out into the garden of Gethsemane where he was arrested. He appeared first before the high priest until sunrise when he was taken to the Sanhedrin. He was then taken to Pilate who discovered he was from Galilee, after which Pilate sent Jesus to Herod. During this week a political prisoner was released to the Jews as part of the week-long festival. So Herod had until Wednesday morning to return Jesus. When he returned Jesus, he and Pilate became good friends, both agreeing Jesus was innocent. Jesus’ final trial before Pilate was at noon and Pilate was present later that night when Jesus was impaled at 9 p.m. At nightfall it became the day of preparation for the special “high Sabbath” of the 21st , the 7th day of unfermented cakes, which is always a special Sabbath day regardless of the day of the week on which it occurs. In 33 CE, the 21st fell on a Friday. Thus this weekend there were two Sabbaths in a row, that Friday and Saturday. Jesus died at the ninth hour (3 p.m.) that Thursday, Nisan 20th. He was in the grave for three nights (Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday night), rising on Saturday night. He appeared for 40 days and then ascended to heaven. Holy Spirit arrived in the upper room just 3 days later. Thus the “mystery” of how Jesus can have a trial at the “sixth hour” and be impaled at the “third hour” is solved, because Jesus’ trial was clearly on a different day than he was impaled. Jehovah’s witnesses are confused only because they have the fixated belief that Jesus must die the same day (within 24 hours) the lambs are killed, so that Jesus fulfills being the “Passover lamb.” But Jesus dying any time during Passover Week would likewise sufficiently fulfill his being the “Passover Lamb.” Of note, Jesus did die on the same type of day (preparation) and at the precise hour (3 p.m.) the lambs were killed.