Posts by PhilJonesIII

6

Wales v NZ All Blacks

by tim hooper in

great effort from the home side, even though they did get beat by the best in the world.. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htjiccouwqs.

.

PhilJonesIII

How can you say the All Blacks won? They only scored more points

Well done the All Blacks. We will try harder next time.

20

10 hour basic pioneer provision question

by Letts Party in

jw
friends

i remember hearing about this rumor around the time of the annual meeting.

did this really happen?

i haven't heard anything about it at my meeting yet.

I'm a newbie here myself and disassociated since the late 80s or thereabouts. That is disassociated as in wrote a letter telling them I was out and wanted nothing more to do with them. I had been a full time pioneer ( that was 100 hours a month ) and a Ministerial Servant.

I'm sure many others will have their own answers so here are mine:

1. Why does the organization punish those with sincere questions when they are not satisfied with the typical "we don't know but wait on Jehovah."

To control thinking. That's about it. I once asked a question during a Watchtower study that was in no way contentious and promptly shot down in flames for having the temerity to question an elder. No one spoke to me after the meeting either which might give you some indication of how strong this view is.

2. Why does the organization feel the need to announce from the platform when someone is pioneering? Prominence?

No. In fairness it was all about encouraging others to do the same and/or give support. I pioneered in the 70s and supported myself financially by working part-time. There was an open invitation from just about everyone to stop-by for lunch if I happened to be working in the area. Equally an invitation to join me in the work.

3. Why is information a privilege and not freely available to all members such as being able to sit-in on the CO's special meeting with the pioneers?

Not sure it was about privileged information. I certainly learned nothing new at those meetings. Pioneering was hard work. It wasn't uncommon to do five-hours straight going from door-to-door alone. Bear in mind that in most cases you don't get much beyond two or three sentences of your introduction which was frustrating and discouraging. The meeting with the CO was about overcoming that discouragement and working on new introductions.

4. Why has the society not apologized once for mistakes that obviously ruined and killed so many of their members?

The Society runs on a good business model ( I mean in a bad way ). You cant sue them for accidents when using their products. And, as a magazine article pointed out, they never made a mistake. Going toward the light of god was like a boat tacking against the wind: You go sideways a lot but the general direction is forward. Nonsense of course but an easy-sell when dealing with people who want to believe. Besides, if they ever did apologise then they would never see the end of the lawsuits.

5. Why does the society fear higher education? Critical thinking and reasoning skills being developed perhaps?

That's about right. I got married and went on to study electronics. I ended up teaching at university. You could say I got full exposure to 'Satan's dark philosophies' though to this day feel no inclination to dance naked around a rock under a full moon. Ogle some of the girls on campus? Guilty as charged.

Nothing I learned in electronics contradicted what the Bible says. Ditto, computer studies, statistical analysis or systems analysis. Satan's wily ways must have got his ideas in somehow I guess. I might have made it as a doctor or in chemistry but I was already too old.

Now the caveat: Some of the brothers were also super people and good supportive friends. I think of them with fondness to this day. My mother tells me that some still ask after me so I don't doubt the love was genuine.

The 'society' on the other hand might have started out as an 'instrument of god in the execution of his works' but has become a living thing in its own right. It is a business and a business for profit which is what businesses are for.

Thats my take on things. Hope it helps. Bear in mind that my experience may not be representitive of others, less so my views.

112

Scientists Should Not Dismiss Genesis So Quickly

by Chris Tann in

nasa discovery proves the bible scientifically accurate.

the debate.

for decades there has been a long standing debate between science and religion as to the validity of the biblical genesis account of creation.

PhilJonesIII

This type of discussion really wears me down.

It is said that if you magnify a single atom to the size of the universe then some of the particles making it up would only be the size of trees. They spent over 7 Billion Euros to come up with that kind of knowledge. Most people will never get close to the level of math needed to begin to understand the what and why they do what they do in places like CERN.

So god created the heavens and the Earth and then produced a book describing how he did it?

Maybe god intended 'An idiots guide to quantum mechanics' as a kind of addendum for people to read in their spare time.

Galileo said the bible was about how to get to heaven, not how the heavens worked. This is why I get irked at claims that the Bible is a book of science. It isn't. The creation account occupies about three pages. We wouldn't live long enough to read a blow-by-blow account had it been provided. Its a bullet-point introduction that more-or-less agrees with what we see.

I do have serious misgivings about things like the sun standing still in the account of Joshua. Such an action would have turned most of them into pizza against the nearest object that was bolted down.

I also have serious misgivings about most of the rest of it. God: The one that worked out how to take all that energy, compressing it in to any number of elements that are screaming to rip themselves apart and just hold them there in a stable state. God: The one that made all the rules governing the combination of elements into compounds. God: The one that pulled off that neat trick of then animating said compounds and get this: Some of them are sentient, self-aware!

That is one seriously impressive piece of work.

So to explain it all he gives us the Bible and it all rather falls apart. This to me becomes like one of those 'how-to' leaflets you get with flatpack furniture: Translated from Chinese to German and then English, its supposed to be a concise description of 'how to'. About as useful as a bicycle to a goldfish. I still like their furniture though.

If God really did pull off the creation then I refuse to insult such a being by even suggesting the Bible is his work.

Had God written a book there would be zero ambiguity. There would be no dispute. There would be no question about what it says, ever. From poorly educated workers in paddy-fields to the brightest minds that ever were......no disagreement.......and that ain't the Bible.

8

Just to voice my opinion for a like button and a flagging function

by nonjwspouse in

i love the idea of having a like button and then allowing an ability to find the threads according to the number of likes, which could get the popular threads in some order.

the flagging function can help you out a good deal in my opinion.

i think the craisglist uses the flag function by removing a post with a certian flag limit ( with a description also) that would automatically cause a post to be at least temporarily removed until a moderator could evaluate.

PhilJonesIII

No!

'Like' and 'Dislike' are far too conservative. I fear that the abandoning of religion has made us timid and afraid of rocking the boat.

We need to speak the same language in order to reach the benighted brethren. The following buttons are suggestetions only:

1) Consign to the fiery pits of Hell.

2) Sponsor for a Sainthood.

3) Purgatory: No posting for a week.

22

Religious nuttery alerts

by Simon in

it seems like every couple of months i notice we've acquired a new religious nut and they have been posting away, annoying everyone and filling the forum with crap.

it's disheartening to see people (even moderators!

) have been having conversations with them and there are pages and pages of insults and crap - we're going to try and avoid this in future.

PhilJonesIII

Please dont feed the trolls. They tend to get very agitated and they can only survive on a strict diet of dogma.

At least they are not standing over you with a machete screaming: 'CONVERT OR DIE!!'

6

Which came first: Chicken or Egg?

by runForever in

http://www.popsci.com/ask-us-anything-new-video-series-chicken-egg-first.

PhilJonesIII

A touch of semantic evasion in the answer methinks. Perhaps the question is wrong.

6

Dirty penguins and filthy seals

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

i had never come across this research into sexually depraved penguins ..... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/09/sex-depravity-penguins-scott-antarctic.

...until i saw this about what some seals get up to.... http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/seals-caught-having-sex-penguins.

maybe it's something they learnt on their long journey back from the ark?.

PhilJonesIII

At least the penguin was a living creature. My dog has violated everything the the house that remains still for more than 20 seconds.

70

Feeling sad over a wasted life in watchtower

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

it's been 12 years since i first read ray franz's books and the scales came off my eyes.

by that time i was in my forties.. since 2002 i went back to school and have worked with 3 very professional organizations.

but my biological clock is ticking away and while my peers are looking forward to retirement, i am only beginning.

PhilJonesIII

Like getting told you have a week to live and no, you get no time off work.....right?

Quote: " 'Hey, you bastards, I'm still here!'

Papillon made it to freedom. And for the remaining years of his life he lived a free man. This, the infamous penal system in French Guiana......did not survive him. " Endquote ( From a dialogue transcript of the film 'Papillion' )
Henri Charrière, the author of 'Papillon' might have been a touch liberal with the truth ( pun intended ) but the overall story is true enough and after his escape, he did prosper.

Been out for over 20 years though spent the first couple of years feeling sorry for myself. There were a lot of people I was genuinely fond of and I know a few missed me.

With 'Witness Thinking' firmly entrenched you start out tending to believe everyone is out to get you. You tend to believe that further study will turn you in to a one of Satan's acolytes.

Sorry but no matter what, you are going to need other people and if you sacrificed a career then you will likely be enrolling somewhere. Now the good news: 'Worldly' friends love you because they want to love you. They will be there behind you when needed. That includes kicking your ass if they think you are feeling sorry for yourself.
The rules are simple : Just do the same for them. Yes there are people 'on the take' but the JW-org was never short of them either.

And you wont be catching cold by dancing naked around some moonlit rock in the wilderness. In my years of study since, the closest I got was ogling some of the women on campus.

Papillion didn't hang about. He got as far away from those prison gates as he could. I didn't lose my youth to a religous-sect: I did all that because I believed it was right. I did lose a couple of years because I was hanging around the prison feeling sorry for myself after realising I was wrong.

We didn't lose a life, we lost the millstone around our necks.

Don't know what to do next? Confused? Apprehensive? So was I. I still am and its just great!

The adventure has started don't you know?

9

Lightbulbs

by PhilJonesIII in

im sure someone must have posted this before but here goes.. q: how many jws does it take to change a lightbulb?.

a : jws are not allowed to change lightbulbs.

anyone attempting to introduce new light gets disfellowshipped.. .

PhilJonesIII

Im sure someone must have posted this before but here goes.

Q: How many JWs does it take to change a lightbulb?

A : JWs are not allowed to change lightbulbs. Anyone attempting to introduce new light gets disfellowshipped.

27

What happy, wonderful thing happened to you since you left the "truth"?

by Jeannette in

more than one thing for me, but i have learned to enjoy festivals, and just enjoying free time.

it's not that the org wouldn't allow it, i just felt i shouldn't.

there are others, of course, and i really have been happier and good things have come my way since i left.

PhilJonesIII

Thank you Open mind. I only waited 50 years or so for that experience.

I believe that as we get older we also switch off from the media driven hype with it's overuse of 'awesome', 'amazing' and whatever. The JW philosophy also makes us unbelivably negative, making us cynical about people's efforts to make the world a better place. There was always a selfish motive it seemed.

I had reached a point where I was happy enough. A good career, and 'comfortable in my skin' as they say in France. The idea I might still be able to experience something that would take my breath away had long abandoned me. When I first saw what I can only describe as a 'dark cloud' of fish approaching I felt apprehensive ( lots of small fish dont need big teeth ). I just hung there as they approached, not daring to move in case I spooked them. Next thing surrounded and junior-me came to mind. That was the innocent and facinated kid in his pre-JW and pre-everything else......and this was in full colour, not the black-and-white version. Yes I was actually blubbing. The JWs had not killed the kid in me. The reality was better than the dream.