Hey Alex Williams do you have a response to my reply on this thread:
Thanks.
Tenacious
JoinedPosts by Tenacious
-
25
What Biblical message should be proclaimed now according to Jesus himself ?
by Alex Williams inthis is what jesus said.
matt 24-14.
14 and this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.. looking at this verse what is the central theme?
-
-
-
15
What happens after the End from teachings of Main stream Churches and teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses
by Alex Williams inmatthew 24:14 new international version (niv).
14 and this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.. only one teaching will lead to salvation and the other one will lead to death forever.
both teachings will be from verses in nwt and mainstream translation of christendom to compare both,before starting the reason both translations is the translators in many cases slanted the text to support the believe of that time,for example :.
-
-
Tenacious
One has to be qualified to be chosen By God himself
For by GRACE you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— 9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared BEFOREHAND to be our way of life.--Ephesians 2:8-10
You are right that one has to be qualified to come to Christ. But we don't have no part in that choosing. Before we are even born God selects us to be saved by and through his Son. There is absolutely nothing we can do on our part to be chosen by God for salvation. NOTHING. See when a REAL son of God hears the salvation message he reacts to it by FAITH. Which in turn sparks God's GRACE. That's why Christ said his own sheep would hear his voice and recognize it and follow him. Notice that it's the voice of Christ a person hears not the Father's.
So, yes, you need to be qualified by the Father but not by works or anything we do on our part. Once a person is saved the Spirit will compel them to live for Christ and Christ alone. Hence the words I originally quoted you. Notice the following:
" . . . . just as he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before him in love. 5 He destined us for adoption as his children through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace that he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and insight 9 he has made known to us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure that he set forth in Christ, 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to gather up all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth." Ephesians 1:4-10
A person works from the Cross not to it. Only cults make a person work for their salvation. Only cults.
-
-
-
-
15
What happens after the End from teachings of Main stream Churches and teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses
by Alex Williams inmatthew 24:14 new international version (niv).
14 and this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.. only one teaching will lead to salvation and the other one will lead to death forever.
both teachings will be from verses in nwt and mainstream translation of christendom to compare both,before starting the reason both translations is the translators in many cases slanted the text to support the believe of that time,for example :.
-
-
Tenacious
“You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that testify on my behalf. 40 Yet you refuse to come to me to have life."
John 5:39, 40
Notice the stark difference between your cult teaching and what Jesus said about ETERNAL LIFE?
You needed to come TO HIM.
Not your masonic god jehovah. Not to your masonic cult organization.
To Him, Jesus Christ!
Take your crap cult teachings somewhere else buddy. Hit the road.
-
6
Interviewed in a magazine of great circulation and in the radio in Portugal
by TJ Curioso intranslation:"inside the "destructive sect".
antónio madaleno was a religious leader in jehovah's witnesses.
on the eve of a demonstration of strength of the organization, which in the next three days promises to fill the estádio da luz in an international congress, this former leader characterizes it as "a group of high control" and tells us his personal drama to get rid of it.".
-
-
Tenacious
Following is the magazine's article roughly translated by Google. I tried cleaning up the translation a bit so if I misinterpreted something TJ Curioso please correct me. Hope it helps shed light on happenings around the world:
"Antonio Madaleno was a religious leader in the Jehovah's Witnesses. On the eve of a show of strength from the organization, which over the next three days promises to fill the Stadium of Light at an International Assembly, this former leader characterizes it as a high-control group and tells us his personal fight to get rid of it."
Author: J. Placido Junior
Photography: Luis Barra
A brief introduction is good right now. Antonio Madaleno was ten years old (individual of “immaculate journey” who plays the role of religious leader) in the Lisbon-South congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses (TJ), with the Kingdom Hall in Penha de Franca. The JW's have an inflexible structure: all decisions and oversight come from the Governing Body, an eight-man group that is at the organization's world headquarters in Warwick, just outside New York. These orders come from Bethel (“House of God” in Hebrew), designated as the headquarters of branches around the world (the Portuguese location is located in Alcabideche, Cascais), which in turn transmits them to the elders, who are on the ground so they can teach them to followers. This without any room of autonomy.
Now 45 years old and an art finalist by profession, Antonio Madaleno says that since he was a kid, he had an “exemplary behavior” in the organization, never celebrating the birthdays or celebrating Christmas, as dictated by internal bans. He always believed that he would live in the "earthly paradise" restored by the JW's after the Holocaust of Armageddon, when Jesus Christ sends his heavenly hosts to destroy all "rebel" humanity, saving only all those who do the bidding and the directions of Jehovah (God).
Until one day ... Antonio eventually drifted away from the organization. So we have a "David" facing a "Goliath" present in 240 countries and with more than eight million practitioners (in Portugal around 50 thousand in 647 congregations), and which in the next three days (June 28, 29 and 30) promises to fill Estadio da Luz in Lisbon at the 2019 International Assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses (“free admission” and “no collection”, as announced). But this Portuguese "David" is far from throwing the towel on the floor, as seen in the following interview.
When did you first enter a Kingdom Hall of JW?
I was still very young. I was taken by my mother. At the time, she was just a sympathizer, studying the Bible with the JW's. As the opportunities presented themselves - my father was not a JW nor -, I accompanied her. On a regular basis, I started attending meetings from the age of ten.
What drove your mother to approach the JW's?
It was a complicated time in our life. Emotionally we were not well. Our family life was problematic and later I learned that she had even contemplated suicide.
Did you find solace and what were you missing?
Of course yes. A person who comes to a congregation is very well received, cherished. Such a recollection makes this person believe that JW's are indeed different from everything else. It is presented as very beautiful, loving, very friendly and an ideal attractive group, which considers itself a family. Experts on destructive sects and high groups controls call it "love bombing," or the excessive use of love, which is a bait technique often used to entrap new members. But once a person comes in, and is very involved with the group, things “calm down”.
Did you say “destructive sect”?
Undoubtedly! I had already researched a lot about this subject and the JW's fill most of the features of a destructive sect. That is, leaders decide everything that is right or wrong in the lives of members. And impose a lot of "rules." They and their "brothers" make sure members limit socializing with people outside the group. Everything a JW does or fails to do so in accordance with the doctrine, the ideals of the organization revolves around religion. And those who disagree, or fail to believe and follow the organization, are expelled and treated as “apostates,” or “sons of the Devil”, or “mentally ill” ...
In concrete, this translates into what, in your opinion?
It's not my opinion, it's facts! In the JW's, if someone says anything in public or even in private, something that goes against the teachings of the organization, this person is marked automatically which in turn complicates the member's standing in the congregation. Then, that person is humiliated and an argument is made in order to minimize "damage to the organization" and/or that person is labeled a "rebel" and then is expelled from the congregation/organization. You can never do well with the JW's. As a high-control group a person has to accept 100% what the organization says.
This picture is a little vague ...
Only being on the inside can one appreciate the real inherent dangers when involving oneself with this type of religious organization. There are parents who kick their children out of the house. And the following is given as an example; Two years ago, a JW assembly held in Portugal, similar to the one that will take place now at Estadio da Luz, a video was played that dramatized the story of a girl who, when she got involved romantically with a co-worker, eventually she was expelled from religion. She was then ostracized by her friends and family who not only kicked her out of the house but also stopped answering her phone calls. But more than 15 years later, now a mother of two children, she decided that "true happiness" was found only in the congregation and she returned. The parents, however, only accepted her back after her readmission was publicly announced to the congregation. This was pure emotional blackmail ...
What is the responsibility of the organization in cases where the family must sever all ties?
The family, which is within the religion, is encouraged to cut ties with this relative. There are parents who stop talking to their children, children who stop talking to their parents, and this extends to all family members. You just have to search an ex-JW forum to see very, very sad reports, even from people who later became suicidal. In an insular community that is closed off to outsiders, such as the JW's, where the person is encouraged to live for the group, inside which he/she makes all his friendships and works intensively for the organization, suddenly being without nobody... The ostracism and the "social death" happen in an instant. Just be announced on the podium: “So-and-so is no longer a JW.” The separation is immediate. They can pass right next to this person on the street and they won't even dare look at you in the face. Or if they look, it will likely be a look of disdain and sadness. They consider members lost, and as if they died in the eyes of Jehovah. And there are people who can't stand this radical change - and fall into depression.
As a child were you shown what Armageddon would be like?
In my time as a child and adolescent there were only books, no videos yet. But these books had very descriptive illustrations of Armageddon, a horrible thing, a holocaust. I remember, for example, pictures of the earth opening and balls of fire falling from the sky, with people - men, women, and children, even domestic animals - crashing down in the holes and being hit by these burning objects ... This kind of illustration still exists today in children's publications. This scars and, consciously or unconsciously, depends on one's personality, yet makes members even more afraid of disobeying the rules of the organization. Members are constantly thinking: “If I fail, make mistakes, commit a sin that goes against God, I lose my life. And receive eternal death. And if I'm alive when Armageddon comes it will be really horrible."
How is Armageddon explained?
They believe that in Armageddon Jesus Christ will arrive with his heavenly hosts and that he will destroy all “rebellious” mankind. And that he will only preserve alive those who are faithful, it is understood that means only the JW's. After this destruction, which according to the organization, based on some biblical texts, will leave dead corpses on almost every corner of the earth, the JW's will have the job of burying them, aided by scavenger birds that come from the sky, to eat the corpses. Then the JW's will begin the restoration work of the earth, where all JW's have the task of cleaning, cultivating, building houses in a perfect life in the "earthly paradise." The Kingdom of God is in heaven alone, where Jesus and the 144,000 — a small number of JWs who are chosen to go to heaven to reign with Christ — will rule the entire earth for a thousand years.
Did you meet people who got rid of everything in 1975 waiting on Armageddon which was the latest date it was supposed to have happened?
I read testimonials from people who quit their jobs and became “pioneers” - because Armageddon was only months away and they wanted to do their best to save lives. I personally met people who lived these days and told me that the feeling was euphoric, towards the imminent end of this "world of Satan," and the arrival of "our liberation" and "paradise." Now, this euphoria was provoked by speeches and printed material from the organization, which later they alleged was a misunderstanding on the part of the “brothers” ...
Were you a dedicated Elder?
I firmly believed in what I was doing. Everything I did, I did from the heart.
Did you have autonomy?
There is no autonomy because the Governing Body's dictates everything. Congregations, by comparison, function as religious franchises. Imagine someone who wants to open a McDonald's: that person has to comply with everything the franchiser decides about marketing, pricing, product making, and so on. In JW's, the model is the same. All directions come from world headquarters, and the Bethel of each country sends these to their country's congregations. There are also circuit overseers who come to visit the congregations every year to ensure everyone is following these directions from headquarters.
Are there punishments for not obeying?
If there are Elders who fail to fall “in line,” they may be stripped of their duties. They have no autonomy to do anything that is not in the organization's book of rules. They cannot decide for themselves to act this way or that way in most cases. They have directions and, if there's ever any doubt, they were to call Bethel to receive further instructions. This was the case for example, with child sexual abuse issues. The rules of the organization require that there be at least two witnesses - which, of course, seldom if ever exist. And so these cases would typically be left "in the hands of Jehovah."
And today you think you should apologize to someone who was ostracized in your congregation?
Unfortunately, I participated once in a judicial committee and later in the readmission committee of this same person. These were emotionally painful situations for everyone involved. At the time, I had acted in good faith. What I started doing at the early stages of my defection was to secret work as an activist, exposing other doctrines, exposing what I disagreed with online. Deep down it was and is my way of "undoing" any evil that I may have possibly committed as an Elder.
Were you a dissident when you were still an Elder?
Yes. I had a blog about JW's and the use of blood, which I wrote using a pseudonym.
Were you ever "caught"?
No. I always had an exemplary behavior, they would have never suspected me. I married a virgin at the age of 25 who was a JW ... And I only celebrated for the first time my birthday when I was 40 although I was already in the process of leaving. My wife arranged a surprise dinner of friends. It was unforgettable and at the same time strange.
Were your first doubts regarding the blood transfusions doctrine?
In the beginning, that was the issue that worried me the most. One may live or die because of a wrong doctrinal interpretation, which to me became shocking when I went into the subject in depth.
Can you elaborate a bit more?
The organization began by banning all use of blood in the late 1940s, both primary fractions - plasma, platelets, white and red blood cells - and secondary - derivatives such as immunoglobulin for autoimmune patients, or Factors VIII and IX, which hemophiliacs need. It said all the use of blood was wrong. It used biblical texts of the Mosaic Law that determine that the blood - symbol of life - when it leaves the animal's body, must be rendered useless. When an Israelite killed an animal to eat, it was bled and symbolically returned to God that life that had been taken. From the year 2000 and onward, the organization began to print information saying that “according to the conscience of some” using secondary fractions is not the same as using blood. So a distinction begins between the use of “good blood” and “bad blood,” as it were.
A dangerous division ...
I have heard of people who died from refusing a blood transfusion, and others who, because they accepted it, were expelled. And suddenly the organization begins to say that some may accept the use of so-called “secondary” blood fractions. I was confused and for the first time, started with my doubts. I thought: if the use of the blood is condemned by God in their totality, either whole or in fractions - then the JW's have the wrong notion of whole blood transfusion when it comes to a transfusion of separate blood components. So there was a doctrinal inconsistency there regarding the biblical teachings and those received in the past by the organization.
What followed?
A Jehovah's Witness is used to hearing that any doubts come from Satan, so he immediately discards these from his mind. “Jehovah will have to provide new insights and clarifications on the subject” —this is the thinking. But I did a lot of research and realized the doctrinal mess that was there. Not even the Jews, who follow the "law of blood" much more strictly, as stated in the Old Testament, accept the doctrine of blood transfusion refusal. JW's, however, are self-righteous to the point of putting lives into question.
But the final decision is in their hands. . . .
Not quite. I have found that there is a lot of misinformation, where the organization overstates the shortcomings, hides the benefits, and demolishes the subject in such a way that the person is terrified. They say that if a person accepts a transfusion, he is condemned by God, he will not go to "paradise." Moreover, they risk being expelled from the organization, which brings with it another burden - the terrifying decision between accepting the transfusion, which can result in the expulsion and loss of family and friends, or not accepting and running a seriously life-threatening situation.
How did you get away from the organization?
Gradually my wife and I stopped attending the meetings. In 2018, I had the judicial commission, in which I dissociated myself, and in which I delivered a letter explaining in detail the my disagreements.
What was your mother's reaction when you left?
My mother and my in-laws are also JW's. The family bonds with them were not broken because we took the option to discreetly move away - otherwise it would have been a “scandal”. Of course they were sad, but they respected our position. It should be that way in every case.
How is your religion today?
I would not say my "religion," but my "spirituality." I stopped believing in organized religion. Most religions end up playing a controlling, manipulative role in people's lives - their fears and anxieties. And, as in the case of JW's, people often become oblivious, as if a blinder is put over their eyes and worse yet they lose all critical thinking.
-
38
Do You Believe The News Media Is Trustworthy?
by minimus inrecently a friend and i were having a conversation about the news media.
he is a democrat but he’s also a very reasonable person.
i’ve known him for many years.
-
-
Tenacious
Anyone who believes the news from the major outlets can be trusted is seriously misguided (with all due respect).
FOX News, although they push their specific agenda and use music, entertainment, sexuality, specific colors, graphics, and specific dialogue to sucker viewers, usually is truthful when they choose to behave like an actual news network.
-
9
2019 Cart Witnessing Aggression Letter and Instructions!
by Atlantis injust in case you were looking for this one.. 2019-07-10-witnessing cart aggression letter and instructions.
https://docdro.id/s6jtyi6.
credit goes to average joe.
-
-
Tenacious
How quickly they advise the friends to call the cops yet when child abuse happens they are told to call the legal department first.
The hypocrisy is incredible!
Can't wait till the governing maggots end up on national television being exposed for the vermin they are.
-
52
Can this be true: GB to court - NBC ??
by Festus inis this a bad joke or "fake news"?.
nbc new york is claiming "attorneys are expected on monday to announce the filing of lawsuits in king's county supreme court against eight members of the governing body of the jehovah's witnesses for alleged child sexual abuse claims.".
eventhough i would enjoy to see this happen i am very suspiciouse concerning nbcs reliability with this case.. https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/happening-today-nj-water-cosby-appeal-epstein-probe-536740491.html.
-
-
Tenacious
@ Alex Williams,
I forgot to tell you:
Tell your gods in New York they'll soon be behind bars reaping all the damage they've caused to innocent men, women, and children. This on top of the rampant child abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses. Tell your maggot leaders we are thrilled to have them exposed like this nationally.
Spiritual paradise and Love Never Fails is an insult to the real churches who truly uphold these values.
-
52
Can this be true: GB to court - NBC ??
by Festus inis this a bad joke or "fake news"?.
nbc new york is claiming "attorneys are expected on monday to announce the filing of lawsuits in king's county supreme court against eight members of the governing body of the jehovah's witnesses for alleged child sexual abuse claims.".
eventhough i would enjoy to see this happen i am very suspiciouse concerning nbcs reliability with this case.. https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/happening-today-nj-water-cosby-appeal-epstein-probe-536740491.html.
-
-
Tenacious
@ Alex Williams:
First, you have to be God's organization (which there is none on earth only independent churches but only the true ones exalt Christ above all so that leaves JW in the wind) in order to be infiltrated.
But hey, keep dreaming buddy.
-
32
Do you believe in a Rapture that the Churches teach instead of living on earth forever
by Alex Williams inits taken from 1 thessalonians 4:13-17. now jesus compared the end to the days of noah .
but as the days of noah were, so shall also the coming of the son of man be.
why did he compare the two and does it give us a clue to which teaching is the right one?.
-
-
Tenacious
Also, regarding the placement of a comma in Luke 23:43: the expression appears 74 times "Truly I tell you...." and in every usage what follows is the saying. The WT translators know this well enough in 73 places but in just this 1 occurrence dislocated the word "today" through use of a comma to conceal the author's intent. The author of Luke continues in chapter 24 with the ascension to heaven scene the same day, there is no delay of 40 days. So in this matter the book of Luke is internally consistant.
Thank you peacefulpete for clarifying and highlighting one of the evil things the Watchtower attempted to do with that comma in Luke (original Greek did not contain commas). Just goes to show the extent the leaders will go in so far as corrupting the word of God. Talk about craziness. Geez!
In the famous words of Jack Nicholson:
Alex, please take your WTS crazy teachings somewhere, we're all stocked up here.