after reading the tragedy of puternut, i was thinking that perhaps it's time that the government took another look at what can happen when they allow religions like the jws, to cut off family members without a second thought.
surely someone's rights to have normal religions with their family should come before freedom of religion.
isn't it ironic that the gb fought so hard in court to obtain freedom of religion, yet their own members commit suicide when they try to express this very right.
It boils down to a conflict in rights...which is an ongoing debate.
The First Amendment guarantees freedom of religion (barring any beliefs that are illegal i.e. polygamy, etc.) v. human rights as guaranteed by numerous laws.
I have been battling this for years and no one will touch it. We have rights as parents, grandparents, children, humans. Which takes priority?
I agree whole-heartedly. Something must be done.
i never thought i would do one of those infamous goodbye i cant take this board anymore posts where the person shows up again a week later and looks like an idiot.
when i had enough of this board and needed a little break i would just quietly leave for a few months and hopefully nobody noticed.
that is not the case this time.
Thank you for your words and thoughts and heart.
When I first came across this board, and had miles to journey and fire to go through, I found a few posters whose wisdom pulled me through the darkest days. I cut and pasted their words into little journals for when I was losing site of this place I look for called Freedom; so I could read and re-read the passages and find the way.
In the journal where I keep yours, I heard the voice of wisdom and understanding. Your words ring with the clarity and force of your art. Thank you for sharing that.
You are a gift.
someone give me the words.. .
my brother's wife recently had a baby.
she was df'd shortly before their marriage but is attending meetings.
Thank you for the responses. I'll be on the phone today again looking for some aid.
To answer some questions:
The congregation knows about the molestation. He is in a small town and they have few active JW's so they keep who they have. THere are move-ins who I used to warn about him and was threatened with DFing. I since DA'd and don't have access to who they are to warn them.
I live in the US. My heart is in Scotland. Sorry for the confusion.
Legal aid only exists in two counties in the state. I don't live in either.
The children know of the situation with my father. They just say "we'll be careful". Which makes me sick. I have spent $80,000 fighting against spiritual warfare. I just settled the last of it last month.
I'll call DCFS and the police right now. The problem is, I went to the state for a Protective order for them and my ex's attorney told the judge there is already wording covering it in the divorce, which there is. A divorce is a civil order which you go to court to enforce. A protective/restraining order would be criminal and would be a different ballgame. Last time I told them the civil order wasn't working that I needed the other, I was accused of "playing the courts."
I'll call StillConcerned also. She has known of the situation for years but I'll let her know nothing has changed.
Thank you all for the advise. I may need to represent myself.
someone give me the words.. .
my brother's wife recently had a baby.
she was df'd shortly before their marriage but is attending meetings.
A court order is a civil order. The police could document their presence together so I could bring it before a judge...which would be at least $2000 to get started. Then we go into discovery, testimony, correspondence between attorneys, etc. and they play games with you.
I am only trying to protect my children...all of them...the little ones and the older ones. Although it is hard as the older ones are JW mentality and see me as having cut myself off from my family via disassociation and that I should beg forgiveness to return from leaving Jehovah. *gag*
They got my phone numbers from my daughters.
I am in the process of addressing this with my ex who thinks he can walk on court orders with Jehovah's help and violate them left and right. I am writing e-mails and hard copy letters. I am considering threatening the elders, etc. with legal action for violating this order, which I'm sure they don't know exists. They may put a stop to it to save their own butts.
Thank you for the replies....if you think of anything, feel free.
someone give me the words.. .
my brother's wife recently had a baby.
she was df'd shortly before their marriage but is attending meetings.
I need help. Someone give me the words.
My brother's wife recently had a baby. She was DF'd shortly before their marriage but is attending meetings. My parents are overjoyed at the new grandchild. I have been DA'd for 7 years and have two children my parents have never bothered to meet. My ex recently took my daughters to visit my parents, brother, his wife, and my new nephew. This is against 3 court orders the court issued to counteract shunning and it's use to alienate my daughters from me.
The court ordered that as long as my parents shun me, they are to have no contact with my children through my ex...all JW's. This is regularly violated and I can't afford to go back to court to continually regulate this.
THe court ordered that my ex cannot take my children to my parents home as my father molested me and this was admitted to in court by my own mother who said I was "over 12" and "old enough". The judge told her to take her pious attitude and leave and he had a recess because he was subsequently ill. Alot like I feel now.
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"Mr. M shall not directly or indirectly expose or allow the children to be exposed to shunning of their mother, or to engage in any family contacts or religious activities that directly or indirectly suggest or expose them to teachings, scriptural interpretations or declarations that Mrs. M is anything less than a good and honorable person and fully worthy of designated, implied, inferred, promised, reserved, assumed, or otherwise available, obtainable or receivable, so called spiritual blessings or rewards which might be obtained or available to faithful religious persons, including faithful members of the JW church. This shall include his exposure of the children to family members, church teachers, preachers, or other advocates of the JW church or to any condemning doctrines or activities. Mr. M shall not have, suggest or cause any religious communications with the children, advise them regarding religion or direct or advise them regarding what their personal conduct or religious activities should be, or monitor their activities to determine if they are in compliance with his religious beliefs, while they are with Mrs. M."
"The court believes this conduct negatively affecting the children's relationship with their mother should stop or be condemned. This church judgementalism, coupled with the malicious use of false accusations against their mother and her husband by their father, has nearly frightened these children away from their mother and her husband een though she is a sincere caring mother. Mrs. M is treated as spiritually dead by the JW church and the extended family who are members.
This ridiculous concept of people judging others appears to be a strong part of the religious judgementalistic doctrine and is apparently required of the members of the church."
"...so long as these children attend church and are indoctrinated in the "only true way" as interpreted by that church, they will continue to be
exposed to negative judgmentalism and derogation of their mother...Mr. M's religious zeal has apparently caused him to justify his past gross
misconduct in this case...."
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My father is now phoning my cell phone and sending photos of the new baby. I have spoken to my daughters about conditional/unconditional love and the difference and the arrogance of shunning and it's effects on all of us in this mess....especially my two younger children who cannot and should not meet their grandparents. They should have a chance to meet their only cousin. He said my daughters had brought up the fact that I feel they don't love me. This is not what I was saying. I told them true love isn't conditional and that I was not going anywhere just because I don't sit in a Kingdom Hall anymore. I was not disfellowshipped for any wrong-doing, to set the record straight.
My father is asking that I not give the older children the impression that they don't love me because that puts them in a strange situation....the situation they created by abusing me and then shunning me conveniently. How do I answer this? I am at a loss as to their involving my daughters in breaking the law, ignoring my rights as their mother, putting first the demands of an organization who has no interest in their welfare by exposing them to a pedophile who is active in the congregation, and the list goes on.Give me the words...please.
i had an interesting conversation the other day with a friend who is also an ex-jw.
this person is older than i am, and was a jw for a number of decades.
she was talking about worldly relatives that she basically ignored when she was a jw.
I ignored them since they were doomed to die anyway. When I left the JW's I reluctantly contacted them and apologized. They just waited me out, smiling, and then said, "We've been waiting for you."
(get the tissues) My daughter was turning 3 and my parents (JW) haven't bothered to meet her, or her little brother. I e-mailed my father's brother who was never a JW and who I had only met once. I asked if he would be the voice on the phone she would think was "grandpa". I explained it was OK if that was too strange as I never really knew him, his wife, or my cousins. That evening the phone rang and he said, "Hello, it's Grandpa Bob. Where's the princess?" I still cry when I tell that one.
That's love...not anything I thought was love before.
Thank you Grandpa Bob, Grandma Edwina, and all my new family I have yet to meet in person and begin to pay back their love and kindness.
.
fight shunning with real heartfelt love.. i think it would be cool to let as many people as possible know that their behavior has not.
stopped us from loving them.
This made me recall an interesting conversation I prompted.
During a self-improvement course I called information for my parents number as they had moved and not left a forwarding address. I phoned them and left a message thanking them for all the nice things they did for me. It was painfully hard and took much thought to come up with anything but I did it.
My dad phoned back about a month later and said, (I kid you not) "Well, if you still care about us that's not fair. That means you are putting all the hate on us!" Yup. Handed all the hate back and it felt great. I would not choose to be family or friends with them without changes in them, but they are now playing my game. no game.
recently my mother and sister have cut me out of their lives.
they made it quite clear that they don't want anything to do with me anymore, my mother going so far as to change her will (not that there was much there anyways).. i have not da, am not df, have never said anything to anyone in my family about my doubts or what i have uncovered about this religion, i just stopped going to meetings.
(i usually go to the dc with her, and some ca, and the memorial at her cong.).
I totally empathize although not understanding either.
My parents have never met my two youngest children who are 4 and 3. I am disassociated, by their terminology. My brother married a DF gal last year. He was not disciplined in any way by the elders. They had a baby last week, who is my first nephew. All the family is rallying around and bringing presents, including my ex who is an active JW. And this is against a court order banning him from taking my older children around my family...the court's answer to alleviate the ridiculous shunnning. Of course they are experts at theocratic war strategy but they also now pick and choose which grandchildren to shun.
i thought i would let you know that my dad, passed away a little while ago, tonight, january 23. they called me at 6pm to tell me.
he had been failing rapidly for the past month, and had completely lost his hearing and was totally blind.
the dementia was extreme too, and he still knew me on thursday, but didn't wake up to know me in the following days.
Marilyn, you are always in my thoughts and heart
but especially so tonite
just curious as i had never really been a true jehovah witness.
i would think that you make friends and suddenly you don't exist.
i would think a board like this is a true godsend.
Getting up every day and knowing your family "chooses" to have you be dead to them is like murder in a way. They choose to kill you every day rather than let themselves feel anything other than what they are told. Losing friends was less painful, as they were only friends in the cargoup or at the hall. They wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire anyway otherwise.
It always amazes me though, they gossip about you constantly. I want to say, "OK, if I'm dead, stop talking about me, OK? Let me die and move on."
