_Morpheus

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Posts by _Morpheus

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  104

  Jehovah's Witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - San Diego Reader (California, US), Friday, January 12, 2018

  by darkspilver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  jehovah's witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - san diego reader (california, us), friday, january 12, 2018.

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  _Morpheus

  Im sorry you feel that way bob. I have no desire to argue or “be right”, im just asking for your point of view. Let me explain.... this quote from jw dot org makes it clear who jehovahs witness look to as their leader, a quote that harmonizes with my 30+ years experiances as one of jehovahs witnesses:

  Jesus guides the Christian congregation by means of Jehovah’s holy spirit, and he has at his service angels who were “made subject to him.”—1 Pet. 3:22.

  the article goes on to make this point:

  The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the modern-day Governing Body, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ.

  If you would like to review the article in its entirety on the societies web sit here is the link:

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010685
  

  Again, it makes clear that jehovahs witnesses dont follow men nor do they rely on a particular administration or member of the gb to make decisions. Its christ leading the congregation. Whatever decisions were made in 1990 were made under christs leadership and he still leads the congregation today, correct? That makes those decisions incredibly relevant.

  Im bringing this up because you seem to have a different view, as if individual men lead and not the christ. If so a review of the article from the societies web site may help clarify things for you.
  

  Thats far from semantics.
  
  
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  104

  Jehovah's Witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - San Diego Reader (California, US), Friday, January 12, 2018

  by darkspilver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  jehovah's witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - san diego reader (california, us), friday, january 12, 2018.

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  _Morpheus

  Lol but its not irrelevant, as i clearly showed. The results of those decisions echo in a strait line to today.

  I do however find your view on “different leadership” a bit strange. Jehovahs witnesses dont look to the governing body as their leaders. They claim but one leader, christ jesus as head of gods kingdom. They say the organization is spirit directed, not man directed. No matter whos name is on the letterhead, jesus is head of the congregation. Im not sure why your identifying the gb or its individual members as unique in the leadership direction of the org. Its all christ jesus leading jehovahs people.
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  104

  Jehovah's Witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - San Diego Reader (California, US), Friday, January 12, 2018

  by darkspilver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  jehovah's witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - san diego reader (california, us), friday, january 12, 2018.

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  _Morpheus

  Also also, bob, your sort of right technially but not really when you say nobody on the current gb was on the gb in 1990. My old buddy gerrit losch was on the service comitte and was sitting in on every meeting of the gb in 1990. He was part of the decision making process on the switch from selling to donations. So technically right but not exactly. Im also not sure why who was serving on the gb at the time matters?
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  104

  Jehovah's Witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - San Diego Reader (California, US), Friday, January 12, 2018

  by darkspilver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  jehovah's witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - san diego reader (california, us), friday, january 12, 2018.

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  _Morpheus

  It was THIRTY YEARS AGO! Move on. As you say, they are not in financial trouble today, so what happened then has no financial consequences that we are seeing today.

  bob, your jumping to an incorrect conclusion there. It has everything to do with today. The supreme courts ruling that said the wt could be taxed for selling religious literature hs huge impact on everything the org has done since. They were forced to adopt the donation arrangment. That arrangment eventually proved not to be sustainable and the changes we today are the result. Even the org reconizes the value examing the past. Thats why they wrote the book “proclaimers of gods kingdom” which covered the first 100 years of the organizations history.
  
  
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  104

  Jehovah's Witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - San Diego Reader (California, US), Friday, January 12, 2018

  by darkspilver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  jehovah's witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - san diego reader (california, us), friday, january 12, 2018.

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  _Morpheus

  Look, I am not going to argue over something of little consequence that’s about 30 years old. You have your views, and I’ll have mine

  im sorry you think this is an argument bob, as i said this is a discussion board and without talking its just blank pages, right? This is a simple exchange of ideas.

  Also, your once again moving the goal posts. You make false statments and when i point out the blatant inaccuracies you decide that it no longer matters.. unfortunately for you it does matter. Motives are everything, bob. these things arnt matter of opinion, they are simple facts.

  the sad truth is that you seem to think we disagree and we dont, at least as far as the org being in finical trouble. We agree they arnt. We agree that they have purposefully moved to a more digital format. Perhaps if you were a bit less defensive we could have a more enjoyable dialogue
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  104

  Jehovah's Witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - San Diego Reader (California, US), Friday, January 12, 2018

  by darkspilver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  jehovah's witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - san diego reader (california, us), friday, january 12, 2018.

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  _Morpheus

  Also , and i hesitate to point this out because you seem easily triggered, there was no attempt to “tax them for something they wernt doing”.

  They most definitely were selling literature.

  Thats why they filed an amicus brief when the jimmy swaggert matter was being considered. The wt org understood the ruling most definitely would apply to their org and therefore filed as an interested party. If the ruling were inconsequential they wouldnt have bothered to file an amicus brief as it would be pointless. They also wouldnt have changed from selling to donations following the ruling, would they? If they had a legal leg to stand on they would have fought it as they have fought countless legal matters over the last 100 years.

  Bob, in sorry but you come accross as somewhat young or perhaps new to the organization. Your grasp of even recent organization history is tenuious at best. Im young and lived through everything we've talked about but you seem to be drawing from rumors or half overheard stories.
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  104

  Jehovah's Witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - San Diego Reader (California, US), Friday, January 12, 2018

  by darkspilver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  jehovah's witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - san diego reader (california, us), friday, january 12, 2018.

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  _Morpheus

  And to add, before the donation based only change, a person still could get the magazine if they didn’t contribute any to the printing costs. How many organizations selling you something lets you have it without paying?

  Oh im sorry but your grossly misrepresenting the truth. As someone who was alive and actually in the organization at that time i can say, for a fact, your wrong. It may be true that an individual witness could decide in their own to give someone a piece of literature for free, that literature was most certainly paid for by the publisher when it was given to them. The business model was never to sell to the general public, it was always to sell to members of the organization who in turn could sell it to recover their money, and even at one point, make money for it sale, like avon (i believe it was a nickle per set of mags, buts its been a while)
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  30

  Couple of real gems in the WT study for this upcoming weekend

  by sir82 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  since blondie seems to still be on sabbatical, i'll take the liberty of highlighting a couple of "gems" from this week's upcoming study, from the article "reject worldly thinking".. from paragraph 12:.

  is it true that succeeding in a secular career that offers power and prestige leads to lasting happiness?

  remember that the craving to control others and the longing to be admired are the desires that enticed satan, but he is angry, not happy.. .

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  _Morpheus

  Interesting thoughts, sir. Let me add something, if i may, on your first quote:

  
  

  Is it true that succeeding in a secular career that offers power and prestige leads to lasting happiness? No. Remember that the craving to control others and the longing to be admired are the desires that enticed Satan, but he is angry, not happy.

  
  

  along with your points, let me question even the premise in its origin.. what the hell is this idea about secular careers that leads to power and prestige? How many jobs or careers really lead to that or even appear to? Do they imagine everyone wants to be a rock star or a politician? Most peoples careers leads to a paycheck and some measure of personal satisfaction. I enjoy my job very much, aside from paying bills. I never had illusions of power, for god sake. The whole premise that anything worldly is evil and that pursuit of a career must be for some ill conceived attempt at power and fame is laughable
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  104

  Jehovah's Witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - San Diego Reader (California, US), Friday, January 12, 2018

  by darkspilver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  jehovah's witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - san diego reader (california, us), friday, january 12, 2018.

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  _Morpheus

  See bob, now your changing the terms of the discussion and somehow taking a friendly exchange of ideas and making it aggressive. You and i were simply talking about the changes in business model and all of a sudden it turns into ‘it dosent matter when they changed they changed and thats it’.. relax bob. Its a discussion forum. Without talk its just a blank web page, right?

  They changed for a reason. Lots of them really... they were forced to go from paying for literature to donations. Eventually the printing business world wide had the bottom fall out. Paper and ink is ever more costly and digital media is far cheaper and more convient. There are reasons they changed and those reasons matter.
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  104

  Jehovah's Witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - San Diego Reader (California, US), Friday, January 12, 2018

  by darkspilver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  jehovah's witnesses to settle sex-abuse case - san diego reader (california, us), friday, january 12, 2018.

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  _Morpheus

  Well, it depends on what you define as the “previous” business model. To my way of looking at it, from the organizations inception until the start of the donation arrangment, it was selling books ands mags. After the donation arrangement started it limped along with less success but technology slowly morphed the world into a digital place. The org kicked and screamed until very very recently but has embraced it to the point now that there are no new releases at conventions. Everything is digital.. that marks, again from my perspective, the start of a different business model.

  edited to add: bear in mind bob, i didnt say the previous model made no sense, i said it “no longer made sense.”. It worked very well until the late 80’s early 90’s. It slowly deteriorated after the whole swaggert thing forced the change to donations.