Posts by Flash

posted

23
Prove to me that the Watchtower is the "Faithful +discreet slave class"
by hubert in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
.

i credit this to "cinemablend" for giving me the thought.. prove to me that the watchtower is the "faithful and discreet slave class', to which the j.w's have to obey down to the letter.. who can "prove" or "disprove" this?.

hubert
Flash

Who can "prove" or "disprove" this?

My best guess is that the Governing Body is, and has been, a mix of both, dominated by the Dark Side of the Force.
Matthew 7: 20 and 21
24
Comments You Will Not Hear at the 6-5-05 WT Study (Resurrection)
by blondie in
1. watchtower
2. bible
"i have hope toward god .

over the hope of resurrection of the dead i am being

the resurrection hope draw them closer to god?
Flash

Over the years the WTS has pinpointed also who will not be resurrected.

Adam, Eve and Judas are a given...they wont be back (Gen. 3: 3, 19, Mark 14: 21) As for everyone else, well, its one thing to speculate who 'might' and who 'might not' be, it's another thing entirely to play the JUDGE and decide who is worthy or unworthy!!!
Thanks Blondie
16
Does It Mean One Religion?
by Honesty in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
at ephesians 4:5 reference is made to 'one faith'.

does this mean the faith of one religion or denomination or does it mean all united in one faith, that is faith in jesus christ as lord and savior regardless of the denomination or religion?
Flash

Forgive me if I am misreading your post. To me God works in ways that we cannot comprehend. Sometimes that involves religions that are not truly godly. They are a path to Christ IMHO.
Hi Shawn
I try not to be, or come off harsh, yet that is the problem with the printed word, it can often be misread.
16
Does It Mean One Religion?
by Honesty in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
at ephesians 4:5 reference is made to 'one faith'.

does this mean the faith of one religion or denomination or does it mean all united in one faith, that is faith in jesus christ as lord and savior regardless of the denomination or religion?
Flash

From its begining there has only been one true Christian faith. All the others have been, and are, Satanic imposters designed to cause us to fall. (2Corinthians 11: 12-15 and 2Thessalonians chapter 2)
33
5/23/05 KM Article "Jehovah's Day is Near"
by TheListener in
1. watchtower
2. bible
to be covered during service meetings week of 5/23/05.. q&a.

1. christians ardently desire the coming of jehovah's day, through which he will destroy the present system of things and usher in a new world of righteousness.

(2 peter 3:12,13, ftn.
Flash

Jeffro,
Your missing my point. Unless you believe the Jews were never God's people then their conduct wouldn't matter. But since IMO, they were God's people, it matters a lot especialy when we're expecting people who claim to be God's people to be flawless from start to finish in every way. My point is the Jews weren't, and modern day Christians aren't going to be either. Bible history shows that neither Jehovah nor His Son managed the ancient Jews or early Christians that 'closely,' otherwise, there would never had occured any apostacy in either faith because they would have been given no room to move in that direction.
Have a nice day.
15
is the gun responsible or the one who fires it?
by zen nudist in
1. watchtower
2. bible
who is the real murderer?.

cain who slew abel, or god who rejected cain, and according to most believers knew how cain would react and what he would do...and did nothing to stop him.. "am i my brother's keeper?

" could be translated as --- why weren't you watching over abel?
Flash

...can you say God was blameless for setting this all into motion,

I don't agree that He set it into motion. Rejecting Cains offering doesn't make God guilty of anything. Cain (like ourselves) was responcible for controling his emotions. Just because his feelings were hurt he decides to kill his brother?? What would a person like that do if something really serious happened to him???
1) ...after all if God had not intervened, there would seem no reason why Cain would have killed Abel
2) ....and unless you think God is an ignorant dolt, surely he would have known what Cain would do
3) ...and that brings up the point of why does God show up AFTER Cain has killed Abel, rather than just before to stop him?
1) I don't believe our powers of understanding are anything compared to that of our Creator. I can believe He can see deeper into an individual than we can and 'know' things about him or her that we can't.
2) Jesus told us to pray that we wouldn't 'be lead into temptation,' so it is not beyond God's authority to arrange for us to be tempted, even so, I don't believe that was the case here reason being, God went out of his way to warn Cain to gain control of himself.
3) Why? To render judgement, that is His right, and again, because of the Rebellion the rules of life have changed. He is allowing Lawlessness to prove itself a fatal existance. To do that, God has to allow all that makes up lawlessness to exist and be carried through to its completion. Otherwise He could never show the superiority of the Law of Selfless Love over the Lawlessness of Selfish Pride.
33
5/23/05 KM Article "Jehovah's Day is Near"
by TheListener in
1. watchtower
2. bible
to be covered during service meetings week of 5/23/05.. q&a.

1. christians ardently desire the coming of jehovah's day, through which he will destroy the present system of things and usher in a new world of righteousness.

(2 peter 3:12,13, ftn.
Flash

Generic Man,
So basically you think the witnesses are God's "chosen people" because they seem to be similar to the Israelites.
Not really, I'm just trying to show that God's ancient people performed badly right from the begining and were in the wrong more often than they were in the right...and yet still were God's people. So then, we shouldn't be surprised that God's modern people aren't all they should be either. Thats what I'm saying.
...you have absolutely no proof that the witnesses are God’s people, but there is tons of evidence that shows that they are not.
Bad conduct and errors in understanding do not prove they aren't God's people. Again, look at Israel during the time of Jesus and look at Jesus's attitude and actions toward the religious establishment. The religious leaders had moved so far from where they should have been as 'God's People' that Jesus regularly rubuked them severly... Yet they where still God's people right up untill Jesus died faithfully. Also, the Jews also didn't understand prophecy that accurately either.
What is so frustrating about your posts is that you still cling to the teachings of the self-anointed elite whom you identify as the evil slave.
The ones that I believe are correct, yes. I discard what I believe to be wrong.
You give a list of teachings that are supposedly unique to the witnesses: But none of these are unique to the witnesses, but have been espoused by all sorts of sects and denominations at some time or another.
Yes, but are they the core teachings on which those religions were built around? ...And where are they now?
But why should you believe any of these doctrines that you list here? Weren’t these the interpretations and teachings of the tyrants you supposedly freed yourself from?
These 'Core Teachings' I believe are scripturely correct.
I find it especially irritating how you try to defend Russell...
Just giving the man the benifit of the doubt. I don't think he woke up one morning and decided to make himself the leader of a new religion. Besides I never said he was a saint. Power can influence anyone of us if we're not carefull.
You may think you have freed yourself from these guys, but you still think like a witness.
I am freeing myself up from as much wrong human reasoning as I can percieve, little by little, day by day. I will hold on only to those things I believe are correct. And as you already know, I worship Jehovah (based on Witness teachings) as an INDIVDUAL. Now, we don't agree, and thats OK. You get the last word, I will be happy to read your next post and then I think we should move on.
15
is the gun responsible or the one who fires it?
by zen nudist in
1. watchtower
2. bible
who is the real murderer?.

cain who slew abel, or god who rejected cain, and according to most believers knew how cain would react and what he would do...and did nothing to stop him.. "am i my brother's keeper?

" could be translated as --- why weren't you watching over abel?
Flash

1) that all sounds nice if you ignore the fundamental problems, namely, God did intervene and supposedly knew the consequences of his actions.
2) ...from the story there is no hint Abel would have been murderered without this intervention.
3) ...so why did God intervene and then not stop Abel from being killed, but only show up afterwards...and then be so odd about the punishment.

1) God was not wrong to choose to counsel Cain. Cain (like us) had free will in choosing to listen to God or not...the fault and failure was Cains alone.
2) You could say that or you could say that God 'knew' sin/murder was crouching/waiting for Cain and so He chose to warn him so Cain could avoid a fall if he chose too.
3) Free will, free will, free will...When it come to obeying God or not WE HAVE FREE WILL. The punishment was God's to choose. If you think its odd, thats your right.
20
Question style in Keep on Watch Brochure
by stillajwexelder in
1. watchtower
2. bible
have you noticed how publications of late in question and answer mode have very personalized and viewpoint questions.

they have gone very pointed.

this seems a definite trend and i wonder if it is one particular writer with a certain style or it has approval from the whole gb to get more pointed in their questions.
Flash

It could of course back-fire on them - getting dubs to THINK for themselves.

Since your talking about a 'new trend' in covering the literature, I think you make an excellant point. I hope the GB doesn't discover their error to soon!
33
5/23/05 KM Article "Jehovah's Day is Near"
by TheListener in
1. watchtower
2. bible
to be covered during service meetings week of 5/23/05.. q&a.

1. christians ardently desire the coming of jehovah's day, through which he will destroy the present system of things and usher in a new world of righteousness.

(2 peter 3:12,13, ftn.
Flash

Generic Man
Your questions are all good ones, I'll answer this one as honestly as I can.
Here you say that the Governing Body and their supporters "have left the love of Christ." This statement implies that there was some time in the past where they were on the right and then strayed from what has been taught in the Bible. My question is since when were they ever on the right course? ... Based on what I've read in the older publications and how they relate to what is currently taught, there is no reason to believe that the Jehovah's Witness belief system is true.
I think it has always been a mixed bag of right and wrong behavior and true and false beliefs from Russell to the present. I do believe the ancient Israelites, especialy during Jesus time, are an accurate comparison to the Witnesses today, particularly their Leadership. Remember, ancient Israel, right from the begining, did not stay true to God. He destroyed a whole generation of them in the wilderness, then after He leads them into the Promised Land they did not obey His command to exterminate everyone out of the land who does not surrender to them. So from Russell's time, till now, we have what I see as the equivalent in behavior and in attitude from those that I believe are God's modern people. With all the errors in their teaching, there is still important truths to be found in major areas. ie:
Jehovah is not a trinity.
Jesus is God's first creation.
The Angelic rebellion is the source of all our troubles.
The Great Tribulation and Armageddon are literal and coming.
God will use the worlds governments to destroy world religion.
The Thousand Year reign is real.
The Resurrection is the only hope for the dead.
The Little Flock will be a literal Heavenly Government.
Satan and his Demons have a finite time to exist and will be terminated.

What reigion/s make these teachings the CORE of their faith? ...None that I'm aware of. I also believe we have another thing to factor in with how domineering and oppressive the leadership of the Organization is and has been...perhaps since Russells death, and that is the warning Jesus gave those He 'entrusted' with His congregation. 'If' when He returned, He found them beating their fellow slaves and the menservants and maidservants (because the Slave got tired of waiting for their Master) He would punish them, by degree, according to their understanding of their error. Some will be destroyed while others will not. Luke 12: 42-48, Matthew 24: 45-51. It seems to me, that Jesus illustration of the 'Wheat and the Weeds' of True and False Christian religions extends also into His congregation, from the GB down to the newest publishers. Matthew 24: 40-42 and Luke 17: 30-37.

The GB has always maintained that 'they' are 'spirit directed' and that God and His Son so closely control them that to go against them is to go against God and His Son themselves. The Bible record shows that God gave the ancient Israelites...the ancient 'Organization,' the freedom to stay close to Him...or not. The GB would have us believe that Christ so closely manages God's modern organization that it is 'impossible' for it to drift away. If that were so, why would Jesus ask if He would 'really find the faith on earth when He arrives?' (Luke 18:8, notice also verse 9). In His Letters to the Early Congregations after His ascension, Jesus had both, encouraged and warned them of the consequences of not staying on track, Revelation 1: 9 thru 3: 17. Notice particularly Rev. 3: 18-22...Especialy 22.

So I'm not surprised at the lack of Christian love and works from the Organization or the self-righteous pride that sooo many individual Witnesses have. Just for laughs...Before I knew who Ted Jaracz was, I saw and heard a talk from him at a DC years ago...I was really shocked at how 'full of himself' he was and thought, "They should 'talk' to him about that," and I was seriously considering writing a letter to the 'Society' about it.

...Later, when I found out who Jaracz was, I thought, "Well that explains a lot!"