Posts by Flash

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

Flash

Since there are 2 Threads covering this subject, if no one minds, I'll repeat part of what I said on the other Thread. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/118745/2093054/post.ashx#2093054

The empirical evidence about 1914 with WW1 and all the new weaponry that was used in it is proof enough for me that the 607 / 1914 formula is correct. An undenyably major change took place on earth at that time. Prior to the 20th century weapons for thousands of years were very primitive. I consider the very rapid change in that area proof that Satan was cast down then. I believe he is no fool and saw his expulsion coming and prepared for it. So right after he was kicked out of heaven he was all set to wreck havok on the earth.

. At one time, the basic teachings of the Witnesses all made sense to us. But the abuses we all suffered from the WTS drove us away from them. That doesn't mean they were or are wrong about everything. They will have to answer for their sins, as will we. Ultimately we are all going to stand before God's Son and we are going to have to be able to say to Him more than, "The organization you gave us made us leave you."

22

Let's assume 607 correct.... How can they prove that lead to 1914?

by AK - Jeff in

i mean i understand the arguments they make - the calculations they lay out.

i did it for 40 years myself as a witness.

my question is a simple one - what 'proof' can the witnesses use to support the entire idea of converting a scripture about the 'gentile times', and a kings' insanity that lasted for 7 literal years into 2520 years?

Flash

First, Happy Birthday!

I mean I understand the arguments they make - the calculations they lay out. I did it for 40 years myself as a witness.

1914 has proven to be false anyway. What king would wait for nearly a hundred years after his silent enthronement to act?
Isn't the whole thing just a foolish notion to begin with? Why did Jesus say no one would know the day and hour...
I'm tired and headed to bed in a bit- but doesn't the entire matter seem just stupid and unworthy almost of real consideration?
I just really wonder if there is any point to it anyway. Even if 607 is right - we know that JW's were never right about anything else anyway - so they certainly did not make a proper conversion of the Gentile times and end it correctly, did they.?
History has essensially proven that by now hasn't it?
Sorry for the rant - just seems like we are repeatedly trying to disprove something that has no basis to begin with. May we be tossing pearls into the swinepit?

I can forgive the errors in calculating dates, the problem I have always had is with their arrogantly presenting their conclusions about times and meanings as ABSOLUTE! The complete lack of humility in being open to the possibility that they might be incorrect is intolorable.

I don't think so, the evidence of WW1 and all the new weaponry that was developed so quickly is proof enough for me that a major change took place on earth. Prior to the 20th century weapons for thousands of years were very primitive. I consider the very rapid change in that area proof that Satan was cast down then. I believe he is no fool and saw his expulsion coming and prepared for it. So right after he was kicked out of heaven he was all set to wreck havok on the earth.
The day and the hour ~ no. But the time in general yes, hence the Signs.
Only if you no longer believe the promise of God's Kingdom on earth to be real. I hope thats not the case. None of us should let the errors and abuses of the WTS/GB stumble us away from that.
JW's are not the only ones who aknowledge the promise of God to end wickedness. Lets say your right. The JW's are wrong and nothing will happen in our lifetime. Should we lose faith in the promise of God and His Son as a result??
No.
At one time, the basic teachings of the Witnesses all made sense to us. But the abuses we all suffered from the WTS drove us away from them. That doesn't mean they were or are wrong about everything. They will have to answer for their sins,as will we. Ultimately we are all going to stand before God's Son. We have to be able to say more than, "The organization you gave us made us leave you."

50

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 8-20-06 WT Study (MURMURINGS) Post 8/20

by blondie in

i will not be able to post this until the evening of 8-20. i worked on 8-27 by mistake and will be out of town until sunday evening.

keep free from murmurings .

"--philippians 2:14 .

Flash

If you think this week's lesson is bad, wait till next week! "Focus on the Goodness of Jehovah's Organization."

LOL, Yes, 'the beatings will continue until morale improves!' hahahahaha

13

I had a bad dream....

by loosie in

i dreamt my husband and i were at a kh for a wedding.

there were about 200 people there.

we were watching the bridesmaid walk up.

Flash

Maybe it's a fear that her husband thinks they are right, rather than herself thinking they are right?

Good point!

50

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 8-20-06 WT Study (MURMURINGS) Post 8/20

by blondie in

i will not be able to post this until the evening of 8-20. i worked on 8-27 by mistake and will be out of town until sunday evening.

keep free from murmurings .

"--philippians 2:14 .

Flash

anewme

I hope they fall apart!!!!

I hope they crack open in the middle and steam and hiss and evaporate and set the their captives free!!!

Thats exactly what there afraid of!! ...And the GB has only itself to blame!

13

I had a bad dream....

by loosie in

i dreamt my husband and i were at a kh for a wedding.

there were about 200 people there.

we were watching the bridesmaid walk up.

Flash

...my husband took me to the library room and said "look they are right this book explains everything that we thought they were wrong about"

I do believe a common reason for the content of our dreams is 'our concerns.' I think your dream represents your fear that they ARE right.

I don't know you well loosie, but I will say this, I do believe the Core beliefs of the Witnesses are correct but the endless man made rules they pile on are NOT! (my profile explains it better)

49

Confrontation - is it for Christians?

by jgnat in

agapa's quiet admission to "imperfect men" in the congregation inspired me to finish a small bible study on confrontation, and how the early church handled disputes.. (romans 12:18 rv) if it be possible, as much as in you lieth, be at peace with all men.

(2 cor 13:11 cev) good-by, my friends.

do better and pay attention to what i have said.

Flash

I am a brother. not very well liked. Thats ok though. If im disliked for applying scriptures properly then that,s cool by me. i did not grow up in the truth. A convert.
I am an Elder (Shepard at heart though). ...Was born a catholic but never practiced it. Don't get me wrong, I am cooperative when things are done right but when they are not I am not afraid to speak up. I respect the arrangement within the Congregation but when it is not right I will say something and continue till it is right or if it is out of my control and I have done everything that I CAN possible do scripturally and it is still not resolved, that is when I leave it in the hands of Jesus, the Head of the Congregation. ( or as you quoted earlier, in Jehovah's hands)

I can really relate agapa37. Our stories are very similar. You are a "thinking" Witness who is genuinely trying his best to worship Jehovah as a Christian. You already know you aren't popular for it, and you wont be. You will probably be shunned eventualy because because of your emphasis on being a True Christian rather than a devoted servant of the FDS and worshiper of "The Organization."

I know that you dont feel that the bible is infalliable. Right? A book that can be trusted as the preserved word of God.

Here is where I would ask you to be very careful. Mark 13: 14 "(let the reader use discernment)" Does the bible contain the word of God? ~ Yes. Is every thought and opinion contained in the bible a divine standard or command from God? ~ No. For instance, Proverbs 31: 6 and 7 is just the opinion of King Lemuel's mother, not a "Bible Principal." When reading Deuteronomy 24: 1 ~ 4 it appears to be God's law though Moses, does it not? Yet, when we read Matthew 19: 7 ~ 9 Jesus makes it clear that on the matter of divorce Moses took it upon himself to make law...it was not from Jehovah. Would any Israelite who disagreed with Moses law on divorce been wrong? Or was Moses wrong to begin with? Now, concerning the writtings of the apostle Paul, his personal opinions and imposed "traditions" are intertwined throughout his writtings. Here are a few examples: 1 Corinthians 11: 4 ~ 16 (pay special note to verses 14 and 16) also chapter 14: 34 and 35, 1 Timothy 2: 9 ~12, Before he was a Christian, Paul was a Zealot for Judaism, a man raised in a life of "Tradtion." Galatians 1: 13 and 14. His writtings (more than those of Moses) show he had no problem imposing his personal views and traditions on the congregation. Should we not use our discernment and be discriminating as to what we accept as from Christ through Paul or should we just assume it is ALL from Christ. Remember Pauls coversion? He went almost overnight from being and unbalanced zealot Jew to being a Christian...an unbalanced zealot Christian ( 2 Corinthians 11: 16 ~ 23 please especialy note verses 17 and 23 ) who ultimately caused his own imprisionment and pre-mature death by ignoring 2 divine warnings NOT to go to Jerusalem. Acts 21: 4, 10 ~ 13 Does that mean Jehovah did not inspire / motivate the bible to be written and preserved? ~ No.

Does inspiration alone elevate ALL the contents of the bible to the level of Divine Law? As I hope I have just shown ~ No. "(let the reader use discernment)" Mark 13: 14

although this is not totally relevant to the post it does give a good understanding of how they can abuse their own system to avoid confrontation, the trouble is when this kind of avoidance of the problem takes place eventually all things come to a head, and thats when people can see the truth about the "truth" and its "leaders, brothers and sisters"

Amen Ade!

49

Confrontation - is it for Christians?

by jgnat in

agapa's quiet admission to "imperfect men" in the congregation inspired me to finish a small bible study on confrontation, and how the early church handled disputes.. (romans 12:18 rv) if it be possible, as much as in you lieth, be at peace with all men.

(2 cor 13:11 cev) good-by, my friends.

do better and pay attention to what i have said.

Flash

agapa37

Jesus began: "If your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother." Clearly, this is not a step based on mere suspicion. You should have evidence or specific information that you can use to help your brother to see that he committed a wrong and needs to set matters straight. It is good to act promptly, not letting the matter grow or letting his attitude become entrenched.

Thank you for your examples of where they 'Talk the Talk.' And with some individuals it may happen. Mostly I have found that people trash you behind your back. Concerning the errors of the Organization, why not try this with your local Elders, CO or DO...see how well its recieved! LOL

Best Wishes ~ Flash

40

Are the "Last Days" an Absurdity? (8/15 WT)

by metatron in

how could anyone know objectively if they live in the "last days", if they fail to examine history?

how would anyone know if things were .

actually worse?

Flash

AlanF

...so Peter's words must apply to the first century.

Was Jesus also talking about the first century when He used Noah's time to describe the "take no note" attitude of the people before the Flood? (Matthew 23: 37, 38, 42, 44 ) Jesus was very specific when He warned them (and us) to "Keep on the watch" ...I'm sure Peter was listening carefully.

IC

Flash, I feel for you, I really do...I started seeing all the error and contradiction in the bible...this is just a control mechanism to keep you in line

I appreciate your concern. Tell me please, where do you believe there is contradiction and who's the mastermind that has kept, and still keeps the Hebrew Scriptures and New Testament / Bible easily accessible around the world down to today?

49

Confrontation - is it for Christians?

by jgnat in

agapa's quiet admission to "imperfect men" in the congregation inspired me to finish a small bible study on confrontation, and how the early church handled disputes.. (romans 12:18 rv) if it be possible, as much as in you lieth, be at peace with all men.

(2 cor 13:11 cev) good-by, my friends.

do better and pay attention to what i have said.

Flash

jgnat ~ I'm sure agapa37 means well...as Witnesses we all did. But your right and Pistoff made the point too. The WTS is an absolute failure at following Christ's teachings.