Posts by meliphar

23

DF'ing: The "Right Kind" Of Repentance.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

.

i've heard of judicial committees df'ing people because their repentance, although genuine, was of the wrong kind.. for years now, elders have been told to make absolutely sure that a persons abject repentance, which might include copious weeping and even hysteria, is to be of no avail if:.

they suspect that the accused's being sorry is only the fact that they are feeling sorry for themselves.. they suspect that the accused is showing sorrow only for the fact that they have been found out.. anyone else come across this?.

meliphar

Hello, all

My fiancee was JW and was DF'd and apparantly the feelings that go along with this are not isolated to her. From what she has told me, she first felt so alone and didn't know what to do. Her entire life had been centered around these beliefs and other people who shared them, so when she was DF'd, she lost all of her friends and even her family would not associate with her.

Years later, she is still affected by her experience and we've talked about it on several occassions. She pointed out to me that Matthew 18:15-17 is often used to explain the practice of DFing people. It says to treat non-repentant people as "pagans and tax collectors." But, obviously if one were to look more closely, this is a very thin argument for treating people the way they do. After all, how did Jesus treat pagans and tax collectors? Did he make them feel isolated, alone, guilty or worthless? In fact, didn't he hand-pick Matthew (a tax collector) to be one of his 12 chosen apostles?

To me, this is the most blatant of all of the mis-teachings that I've learned about. For those who have been hurt by this type of treatment, all I can recommend is to find a church family that exemplifies God's grace and teaches the orthodox principles of the true bible (which would not include the NWT).

113

Why Aren't Jehovah's Witnesses Allowed To Freely Express Themselves?

by minimus in

jw
friends

it's a simple fact.

jw's cannot freely express themselves.

they can't freely tell another about a doubt or a question that they might have for fear they could be exposed to the elders.

meliphar

Hello

I am new to this site, but have been reading through the postings in this topic. Forgive me if I'm a bit longwinded here, but I may not get a chance to post again for a while. I have never been a JW, myself, but my fiancee was for about 12 years and another friend still is a JW after 15 years.

After reading through many postings, the first thing I noticed was that most, if not all, of the posters here are XJWs or JWs (scholar and mcsemike50). For many of the XJWs, I sense that you have felt very hurt by your JW background or experience. My fiancee felt that way as well when she was df'd. I don't know what I can say to help to heal the hurt you've been through, but I can tell you that no matter if you are, were, or never have been a JW, God loves you just the same.

As for scholar, I will admit that my degrees are not in any way related to theological studies. But I do tend to be a rather critical thinking person. I know that as a JW, you are not allowed to consider apostate literature as a means to find answers to difficult questions. However, my fiancee still has her NWT Bible and her Reasoning from the Scriptures. Both of these publications troubled me a great deal when reading through them.

For example, in the preface of the WatchTower Bible, it states that the NWT committe used the oldest Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic texts to translate the Bible into English. I would expect this of any reliable translation, as I'm sure anyone here would. However, the preface went on to say that it was transated from English (one of the most limited and least robust languages known) into several other languages. This raised a big red flag with me. Why were the "several other languages" not translated from the original texts as the English translation supposedly was? This does not make much sense to me.

Also, all of the members of the NWT committee were JW's. This was another red flag. If a committee of all Roman Catholics (which was how I was raised) were organized to translate the bible, many (probably all) other Christian denominations would refute this as being a true translation as it would, of course, contain translations that would be interpreted with some of the nuances of the Catholic faith. The same would naturally be true of any one denomination. Plus, from what I've been told by my fiancee and several other XJWs, JWs do not spend as much time as they claim studying "the Bible" but rather spend up to 85% of their time studying what the WTS says about the Bible. Others on this site can confirm or deny this.

My preference, therefore is the NIV which was translated from the oldest texts by a committee of over 13 different Christian denominations. To me, this would increase credibility as no one denomination's views would dominate the translation.

Also, when it comes to the practice of DFing a member of the congregation, I understand that Matthew 18:15-17 is used to explain this practice. In this passage, we are told to treat people who will not repent as "pagans and tax collectors." The JWs have apparantly interpreted this to mean that we should ignore these people (as seems to be happening to mcsemike50 probably many other XJWs) and pretty much act as if they do not exist. JWs seem to think that this is how "pagans and tax collectors" should be treated according to the scriptures. However, I'd like to point out that Matthew himself, one of the twelve apostles, hand-picked by Jesus himself was a tax collector. Is there some evidence in the scriptures that indicates that Matthew was treated in the same manner as JWs treat those who have been DFd? From what I have read, Jesus loved these people and spent MOST of his time with them. It was the pharisees who practiced the "letter of the law" (something that seems like happens in Kingdom Halls) that the Bible taught against in Isaiah 29:13, Matthew 15:8 and Mark 7:6.

Be very careful of any "religious" belief system that teaches about works. There is no way to "earn" your way into God's kingdom. It's a free gift. You either accept it, or you don't. The thief who was crucified next to Christ and accepted him in the last moments was assured entrance to the kingdom. He didn't DO anything, he simply accepted that Jesus was the Christ and that he was Lord and Savior.

Finally, in reading Reasoning from the Scriptures, I found some of the arguments so illogical as to actually be rather humorous. According to this book, one of the arguments for the JW belief that Christ was not "physically" raised from the dead was that he appeared to the Apostles wearing robes, but when they went to the tomb, the linen wrappings were still there, so where had he gotten the robes? In other words, according to this Reasoing from the Scriptures text, a God who; created the universe, brought plagues to Egypt, parted the Red Sea, stopped the sun in the sky, raised people from the dead, cured the blind and lame, healed the sick and performed many other miracles.....this God who had done all of this couldn't figure out how to come up with a robe??? But, according to this same explanation, he went around in "spirit form" and was able to "manifest" a physical form when needed (i.e. with Thomas). So, he could make a physical human body at will, but the MUCH less complicated clothing was not possible?

Sorry that I went on so long here, but I wanted to put in my $.75. I do hope this helps someone out there.

__________

Meliphar (Absolutely no credentials whatsoever in this field)