several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
Good questions. Even Jesus avoided replying to some of the important questions put to him. One classic example: 'I will tell you who I am--if you tell me whether the baptism performed by John the Baptist from God or from himself' (something like this--I don't remember the words exactly)
though parable of prodigal son is superlative in quality as it graphically picturizes the scientific law of cause and consequence, its conclusion defames god.
when the prodigal son returned repentant, his father showed his delight saying: let us celebrate this by killing a fattened calf.
(luke 15:23) such a concept (let us rejoice by giving maximum pain to another innocent living being) seems to be interpolation for the following reason:.
You got me correctly when you said: “This parable appears only in the Gospel of Luke. It is made up by the author.” This is exactly what I wanted to highlight—parable is not from Jesus. Veg or non-veg became just a medium (not the subject-matter) I used.
though parable of prodigal son is superlative in quality as it graphically picturizes the scientific law of cause and consequence, its conclusion defames god.
when the prodigal son returned repentant, his father showed his delight saying: let us celebrate this by killing a fattened calf.
(luke 15:23) such a concept (let us rejoice by giving maximum pain to another innocent living being) seems to be interpolation for the following reason:.
Though parable of prodigal son is superlative in quality as it graphically picturizes the scientific Law of Cause and Consequence, its conclusion defames God. When the prodigal son returned repentant, his father showed his delight saying: Let us celebrate this by killing a “fattened calf.” (Luke 15:23) Such a concept (let us rejoice by giving maximum pain to another innocent living being) seems to be interpolation for the following reason:
1) Jesus knows every life is precious and every living being cherishes their lives (Mathew 9:13)
2) In the previous chapter, Jesus had already said one can break the Law of Sabbath to save a cow that has fallen into a pit on Sabbath (Luke 14:5).
3) Above all, father in the parable represents God himself who would not say “let us celebrate this by killing a fattened calf” as He had already made it clear ‘killing a bull is equal to killing a man, and is nothing but abomination’ (the root of which carries the notion of terror, horror, repugnance, disgust).—Isaiah 66:3.
On the contrary, when a village girl offered rice pudding to Buddha, he enjoyed it so much that he realized the noble middle path—proper food properly cooked gives energy to one’s brain and solace to his tortured soul—especially so if it is prepared love towards the prospective eater. You may have heard some saying: “the food my mother cooks carries a special taste, and is a delight to my heart’ If one really enjoys the taste and aroma of food while eating it slowly with proper chewing and relishing it, and taking it silently with the person being immersed in the experience, then it allows the other senses to kick in and provides the wholeness of experience, and helps focus the attention on the eating experience—something that forms the part of even the true worship (Compare Mark 12:30). Hence in some cultures eating is considered as part of worship!
Various foods have varying effects on body. Soldiers say certain foods help them to remain in fighting mood. Interestingly, we even have a branch of nutritional genomics—Nutrigenomics—that looks at how different foods may interact with specific genes to modify the risk of certain common diseases. (http://www.nutritionandgenetics.org/). Conversely, certain food can interact with specific genes to strengthen our health—physical and spiritual!
So ignoring all these aspects, how could Jesus put into the mouth of the father in the parable: ‘Let us celebrate this by killing a fattened calf (Luke 15:23)?
this came up on terry walstrom thread topic recently and i thought it would be good to explore this further.
the jws are quite boisterous and arrogant that they use the proper name of jehovah as the divine name of god.
but a little investigation discovers something quite different.
if you are a non-believing relative or spouse who is hostile to their doctrine are you an apostate?
if you studied with them and rang the logical fallacy buzzer for chits and giggles to see how they would react does this make you an apostate?.
if you are a born in who never got baptised does this make you an apostate?.
jehovah only dealt with a patriarchal family after adam sinned .he then only turned his attention to the 12 tribes of what was to become the nation of israel .. apparently he did not give two hoots about the rest of mankind outside of this small group of people compared to the rest of humanity.. 4000 years later he declares his love for the world and had his son sacrificed , setting up a system ( christianity ) starting off with jews and then allowing gentiles to enter., again neglecting the rest of humanity / nations on the earth , leaving them to their own desires.. during the first 4000 years he spent a helluva lot of time and energy trying to convince the jews he was almighty god .. performing miracles ,raising the dead ,slaughtering opponents with angelic intervention ,committing genocide on israels behalf ,etc.etc.
you know the drill.. no such effort was made trying to convince other nations or blessing them for their achievements advancing civilization , they were left to their own device , no direction ,no help , or instruction was given to them whatsoever .
and nothing has changed this past 2000 years , it started out as a small group who by "divine providence" were to be called " christian" according to the bible , and again he is only acting on behalf of this group , neglecting all other nations who now cover most of this earth.. so my question is : if jehovah really did love the "world" humanity , why did he not act in behalf of all humanity instead of singling out a minority group of people 6000 years ago and continuing on with that policy till today ?.
1) his blunt reply to a young man spoiled his interest in spirituality.
(mathew 19:16-22) this does not match the majesty of jesus.
what he said in mathew 16:21: if you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven contradicts what he said earlier in mathew 5:44-48 where he says if you want to be perfect, be like your heavenly father who loves both the saints and the sinners alikewhich obviously require that you need some material possessions with you.
1) His blunt reply to a young man spoiled his interest in spirituality. (Mathew 19:16-22) This does not match the majesty of Jesus. What he said in Mathew 16:21: “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven” contradicts what he said earlier in Mathew 5:44-48 where he says ‘If you want to be perfect, be like your heavenly Father who loves both the saints and the sinners alike—which obviously require that you need some material possessions with you. On the contrary, if you become poor by disposing all your wealth, who will take care of you? Hence Mathew 19:16-22 could be an interpolation by someone thoughtless!
2) Another controversial statement found in Mathew 5:39 (“whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also”) too could be interpolation. Because this is something Jesus himself did not practice: When he was smitten, he did not show the other cheek, instead asked boldly: “If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why do you smite me?(John 18:23). In practice, he had a very practical and manly style: “Everyone who denies me here on earth, I will also deny before my Father in heaven.” (Mathew 10:33) If someone provokes you, you should defuse the issue through unilateral avoidance. Showing other cheek encourage others to continue to sin!
adam and eve story does not follow the common logic..
1) children would never believe a lie (especially from a stranger) against their father who has already proved a supreme benefactor to them!.
2) if even if they believed, normal course of action would have been to wait!
Adam and Eve story does not follow the common logic.
1) Children would never believe a lie (especially from a stranger) against their father who has already proved a Supreme Benefactor to them!
2) If even if they believed, normal course of action would have been to wait! Because God says they will die if they eat of forbidden tree, and serpent says they will not. If they would allow the time to pass, they would know the truth. If God is a liar, they will find signs of old-age and death developing in their bodies, and they can easily avoid death by eating of the forbidden tree. If they do not find any signs of old-age and death developing in their bodies, then they would know Satan is a liar.
3) Even if they wanted to eat, no sensible person would decide to eat of the forbidden tree together with the other person! [If people wanted to know the taste of cyanide, why all of them should choose to taste simultaneously?] Eve ate first. That means they are now in a position to know the consequence of that action. If she becomes like God, becoming better and better day by day because she ate of the tree, her husband could now decide to eat of the tree. On the other hand, if Eve shows the signs of old age and death because she ate of the tree, Adam can decide not to eat of that tree, and take the matter with God for a solution.
4) God’s response falls
short of His status:
a) cursed all snakes, even those yet to be born (Gen 3:14)
b) made excruciating labor-pain mandatory for all women (Gen 3:16)
c) made earning livelihood difficult for men (3:18, 19)
d) admitted He had a hidden agenda, thus proves Satan was not a liar (God
declared, in Genesis 3:22, that Adam and Eve have “now become like one
of us” fulfilling what Satan had foretold: “when you eat from it your eyes will
be opened, and you will be like God.” (Gen 3:5) This prospect was kept
hidden when God originally announced the law: “you must not eat from the tree
of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will
certainly die.” (Gen 2:17)
Thus, Adam and Eve account clearly backfires on God and even on the writer himself as one who has no sense of logic or reason! Thus account fails to meet the criterion of a story!
genesis 1:31 says: god saw all that he had made, and it was very good.
in other words, god rated his works as perfect..
if this is true, why his later works are too imperfect?
genesis 1:31 says: god saw all that he had made, and it was very good.
in other words, god rated his works as perfect..
if this is true, why his later works are too imperfect?
Genesis 1:31 says: “God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.” In other words, God rated His works as perfect.
If this is true, why His later works are too imperfect? To mention a few:
1) The present day explosive situation involving Jews and Muslims are inseparably linked with the way He handled that ancient family of Abraham-Sarah & Isaac, and Hagar & Ishmael.
2) Giving harshest (death) punishment to a man who gathered firewood on Sabbath (Number 15:32) while giving soft punishment to David who committed pre-meditated rape and murder.
3) Asking His innocent and sinless son, Jesus, to undergo a most humiliating and extremely painful death for the sake of sinners suggests that God is cornered without any way out but punishing the innocent (as the king in check in chess game). Is it not like inflicting pain on one to please another?
These samples from the Bible show:
1) Either God is imperfect
2) Or Bible accounts originated with imperfect humans and their faulty imagination.
Obviously, God cannot be imperfect. Examples such as food-cycle, water cycle, carbon cycle, nitrogen cycle, water cycle ……….. and life itself as a cosmic function (being a very complex arrangement of things both terrestrial and extraterrestrial that must obtain before life can subsist-- the laws, forces, and constants of the universe appearing to be exquisitely fine-tuned for the existence of life) all are examples that prove He is perfect.
Yet Bible presents an imperfect God which means Bible is the work of imperfect humans whose perception of God is accordingly imperfect! A true God cannot be held in check as the Bible presents. God will not provide a book, of which the very first verse itself proved to be wrong. (First Law of Thermodynamics that states energy CANNOT BE CREATED or destroyed but changed from one form to another). Interestingly, no other scriptures are better than the Bible in this aspect (which means using books is not the style of God)!
Conclusion:
Scriptures often present wrong picture of God, hence are not reliable guides to know God. Does this mean God is not interested in us or He doesn't even exist? That’s an extra-ordinary statement which requires extra-ordinary proof. Yet overwhelming proofs exists to the contrary. It’s our experience that there is cause preceding everything that happens. This means the Principle of Cause and Consequence rules all the happenings which, in turn, makes God’s guidance and intervention unnecessary! This Principle works like profit and loss mechanism in business. Business man will involve more and more in profitable ventures, and will keep himself away from loss-giving ventures. Even if ego and arrogance may prevent him from continuing with loss-giving business for some time, ultimately he will have to make a U-turn. Similarly, humans know what brings them benefit, and what brings them harm. Ultimately, they will have to turn to what brings them benefit!
This is my personal opinion!
[I was a visitor here so far. The reason why I thought of partaking here from now onward is that before I leave JW org, I want to know how strong my recently formulated view of them and the Bible.]
