Re: Caliber.........that time you had to clean carpets in the church........I was wondering if it was quite a few years ago in western Canada..............as I recall a similiar experience.
Just curious, but don't share any more information than you're comfortable with.
some may have seen this tid-bit being passed around in certain jw email circles.
a "deeply concerned" jw relative (who knows i have soured on the whole jw thing) emailed this to me in hopes that it would improve my attitude.
at first i was just going to thank them for their concern and for the "encourgaging" email, but then i decided i must respond to this.
I was at an assembly day recently, and the brother from Bethel (Brother Little) actually said "if the faithful and discreet slave tells us to jump, we should say "how high?"......and while we're on the way up........:" (I guess he's in agreement with the cult mentality)
Another interesting statement was from a sister, many years in the truth. She was talking about facing challenges in her life, etc. .........one of them was taking care of her aging parents, and she mentioned "I never thought they would grow old in this system of things, but now we have to accept that not only are they getting much older.......but we are too" (not an exact quotation, but as close as I can remember)
the bible says the 144000 would be the first fruits.
witnesses have interpetted that over .
and over as meaning that the first 144000 to accept christ would be his bride.
Excellent subject.......and very much an Achilles heel for the Society........
In time they'll have to drop the "literal" number as related to the anointed.
(Nice to see so many "doing the math")
and what would you say about the book often referenced by the society as a backing for the stake theory, the non-christian cross by j. d. parsons ?.
you can also download it here if you prefer.
i know that book was written in 19th century so i hope that won't be used as an argument against it after all sir isaac newton's principia was written in 1687 and we aren't holding that against it either.
just read my post.........sorry about the spelling.........getting late I guess
and what would you say about the book often referenced by the society as a backing for the stake theory, the non-christian cross by j. d. parsons ?.
you can also download it here if you prefer.
i know that book was written in 19th century so i hope that won't be used as an argument against it after all sir isaac newton's principia was written in 1687 and we aren't holding that against it either.
I was quite interested in this topic a while ago.........and did quite a bit of research.
It seems bizarre that Witnesses examine scriptures to the smallest detail, but when it comes to the evidence right in the gospels, their reasoning goes out the window.
Matt. 27: 37 has Pilate putting the infamous sign above Jesus' head, not his hands.
And I think it's been mentioned about Thomas exclamation of "seeing the print of the NAILS in Jesus' hands.......yet in every picture portrayed in the literature they show one nail.
I've also read that it would be far more difficult to stay alive for very long if your arms were fastened above your head in that manner........very difficult to breathe, not to mention your arms losing all circulation. Yet the whole point of this manner of death was to make it last for some time.
A recent article on this (March 1, 2008 Watchtower) mentions on pg. 22.............."more important, no matter what device was used fopr the torture and execution of Jesus, no image or symgoll of it should become an object of devotion or worship for Christians." (the article still mentions the argument of the stauros, etc. but it seems to give the impression they're not so dogmatic about the topic)
the new testament talks consistently of a heavenly hope, not an earthly one and the idea that humans are to live forever on earth is not supported scripturally at all.. however, what would have happened if adam and eve had not sinned.
the watchtower likes to make the point that it is only sin that caused adam and eve to die.
romans 5:12 that is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.. what do christians believe regarding this scripture?
This assumption is made in virtually every publication put out by the Watchtower.......(that Adam and Eve would have lived forever if they hadn't sinned, and that we would be living forever also)
Something I've never seen discussed at all, though is ......what if they remained faithful....... do you really think all their offspring would have followed their example?
Even some of God's angels in heaven disobeyed Him........I doubt that every single human from that moment on would have proved righteous and remained perfect.
We can only speculate.......but it seems that eventually you would end up with some Cains or Nimrods, who would even have killed any perfect people they could.
I think it was inevitable that we would end up with all the imperfection we have today........It's a big test.
this is just a thought that has probably already been proposed here before but after looking at the 'official' watchtower site i think maybe the latest service report for 2007 will follow the format of.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/statistics/worldwide_report.htm .
missing out the percentage increase (decrease) from the previous year.. i think the following year they will also leave out the ever decreasing (increasing) number of memorial partakers.. just my thoughts.
That's probably something they would like to do.......they've always been so focused on numbers, but for quite some time now they have not been very impressive.
In our congregation when they comment on the annual report, everyone seems to gloss over the negatives and talk about some "dramatic increase" (usually a small island where the #'s jumped from 5 to 7 publishers creating a huge % increase).
It'll be interesting to see the 2007 report......
a recent meeting stressed the usual pioneering for march and april.........in canada they want to reach a new peak of 20,000 auxiliary pioneers.. the article mentioned that would only require 20% of each congregations publishers.. we're not even close in our congregation........so far 4 out of 90 pubs.
how is the push going in other areas?.
i have my doubts they'll reach their goal..........will have to wait and see.
A recent meeting stressed the usual pioneering for March and April.........in Canada they want to reach a new peak of 20,000 auxiliary pioneers.
The article mentioned that would only require 20% of each congregations publishers.
We're not even close in our congregation........so far 4 out of 90 pubs. (4.4%)
How is the push going in other areas?
I have my doubts they'll reach their goal..........will have to wait and see. (I know I'm not signing up)
i haven't been to meetings in a long time (trying to fade).
ever so often i do run into a witness or 2 who are friendly, but reserved (after all i am considered in active).
anyway, my hubby & i are currently working on a letter to send to the society that will more then likely get us df'd or disassociated (same thing i guess).
Re: On the Way Out
("I am going to accept a visit from the CO and DO in about three weeks. That is because I am an active witness, who has just stepped down as an elder, by submitting a letter about my doubts. I am going to keep saying that I have doubts (really I no longer doubt that the GB is wrong) but I will discuss it no further. I feel that this is a necessary step in my fading away gracefully..................." )
Just curious how this stragegy will work for you..........I too was an elder and also have numerous doubts about the "truth" .
Hope you find time to let us know how it goes.
the society has always been against tithing..........a stand they took from early times and which hasn't changed............ do you think they now wish they had incorporated tithing, with all the money they seem to be requiring.
(ex.- every year the donation options mentioned prominently in the watchtower).
tithing has obviously worked well for the mormons, what would happen if they now decided to include this "principle" today?.
The Society has always been against tithing..........a stand they took from early times and which hasn't changed...........
Do you think they now wish they had incorporated tithing, with all the money they seem to be requiring. (Ex.- every year the donation options mentioned prominently in the Watchtower)
Tithing has obviously worked well for the Mormons, what would happen if they now decided to include this "principle" today?
The donations I give are almost nill.......just a token.
